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Old 26-01-2013, 06:06   #31
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Do you ever wonder why all production Cats have an escape hatch in the hulls? Have you never seen pictures of the crew of a cat clinging to the underside waiting rescue? I happens more than you realize.
You mean that hatch is not for looking at the fishes when underway?
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:09   #32
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

@Gordo, let me say again NOT A TROLL, and to be honest I didnt want you cat guys here stinkin up my thread with this cat piss.
I was looking for opinions on knock downs from mono sailers, because it happens. Why do the cat crew get so defensive over this stuff.
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:21   #33
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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Why do the cat crew get so defensive over this stuff.
Feelings of inadequacy and frustration? Just a WAG. I'm a sailor, not a shrink!
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:28   #34
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

I thought the question was whether you had even taken a 90 degree knock over. Not some cat fight thing.

There hasn't been many real posts so far on the topic, but for those there doesn't seen a 90 is very common (I wouldn't expect it to be common).

But of the people who had knock overs I wonder how many could have been prevented by a change of course etc. For example I wonder how many were caused by a desire to get in instead of changing course to ride out the event.
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:44   #35
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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post

Feelings of inadequacy and frustration? Just a WAG. I'm a sailor, not a shrink!
How about Rabbits last sentence,, and he didnt want it to become a cat piss thing???
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:44   #36
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pirate Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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I thought the question was whether you had even taken a 90 degree knock over. Not some cat fight thing.

There hasn't been many real posts so far on the topic, but for those there doesn't seen a 90 is very common (I wouldn't expect it to be common).

But of the people who had knock overs I wonder how many could have been prevented by a change of course etc. For example I wonder how many were caused by a desire to get in instead of changing course to ride out the event.
In my case I was NE of the Bahama's and heading for mid-atlantic... it was just a freak occurance on a top heavy boat... 3000litres of fuel and water in tanks above the waterline... we carried on, same course and sails no repeat.. most knockdowns are a combination of things that come together to create the event for cruisers... takes a mega storm for repeat KD's... or mega stupidity..
Racers don't care... its usually someone else boat..
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Old 26-01-2013, 06:51   #37
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

So far, I've only been knocked down to 90 degrees (and once past 90) either in races, or in small (<7m) sailing boats.

All monohulls.

No problems standing the boat up again, unless under spinnaker.

The knockdown past 90 deg was in a cruising boat, white-sail reaching parallel to a rockbound lee shore to get to safety.

The forecast (and our assessment) had been for motoring in a calm.

The boat took a few days to clean up and repair, but nothing we couldn't manage with the resources we had on board. The cleanup resulted directly from the knockdown, but the damage (mainly to the rudder) was due to the conditions.

I don't particularly expect to get knocked down in a big boat, but I certainly don't bargain on it not happening.

Had a very close shave once on a 52' sailboat, similar to an Alden sloop, in a radically fast-onset, short duration, intense mini tropical revolving storm. We didn't even have time to get the main away, let alone fit stormboards etc, and it was only inspired helming that got us through, running dead downwind with the main sheeted in almost amidships, as if part way through a gybe, so the flow was from leech to luff and the projected area and yaw moment were both minimised.

I would not personally own or build a boat where the idea of it inverting seemed a deal breaker /automatically require outside assistance / be likely to result in trashing the contents and/or occupants.
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Old 26-01-2013, 07:08   #38
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

so far i have managed to avoid kd by sailing under rigged--and sailing in winter in mexico.
big winds occur and if you are prepared for this, is much less of a trial on you and your boat.
i am concerned about knockdowns, and i really dont wish to experience first hand this event.
mizzen and jib work fine for me.
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Old 26-01-2013, 07:13   #39
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

Not quite sure how catamarans are great because they can defy physics thing made it into this thread - I thought CF created a seperate sub forum so folks could "safely" blow smoke up each others jacksy's without fear of questioning?....in the rest of the forum it is usual practice to raise questions, including awkward ones - without folks throwing toys out of pram. Monos can get knocked flat, they can go 180! and usually also 360. and they can also sink - strangely most Mono owners don't have an attack of the vapours over those possibilities (maybe because they didn't come as a surprise after the cheque cleared?) but are instead interested in hearing about the experiances of others rather than seek to keep these things as a secret.

Am sure plenty of threads that could be re-awakened for those who want to master the debate about cats again (strangely it never seems to be about Trimarans).
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Old 26-01-2013, 08:01   #40
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

We had our knockdown in our mono because:

- we had no working engine
- we were quite bored after 4 days on the same island and felt it was time to move on
- we had to go against the wind, against the current, between 2 reefs about 1 mile apart and we REFUSED to lose a metre.... and then we saw a squall bearing down... I uncleated the main sheet, held it in my hand, watched a catspaw move closer....the gust hit, I released the sheet at the same time, the boat slammed over, the boom only moved a metre before it hit the water, chaos down below, spreaders in the water...
- "Honey, release the jib sheet!!!"
- By now the sails were underwater, the windward side of the keel had barnacles that were enjoying the pleasure of direct sunlight for the first time ever, my woman was up to her thighs in water scrabbling for the submerged jib sheet, all the CDs and cassettes and pots and pans and books had hit the leeward side down below.
- bla bla bla, so continue the stories of bad judgement and cruising fun....
- we screwed up but survived!

RabidRabbit, multihullers do not really care much about what the close minded monohullers think. Open minded monohullers (open minded people) are treated differently. Did the car drivers really care that much about the horse riders in the 1910s who refused to move with the times? Nevertheless, you asked the question. Just like car drivers in the 1910s were ex horse riders, most of the current generation of multihullers were actually monohullers before. They are the cross generation, just like those that crossed over from horses to cars, from stones to sling shots, from kerosene to electricity, from an abacus to a calculator.

These are the guys who cross both generations....

You ignore their opinions, comments and experiences at your peril, mate!
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:03   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit
I cant imagine being in any bad weather and wishing I was in a cat.
THIS is why the cat piss showed up! I mean come on, own up, you wanted a show to watch, otherwise you woulda never included that lady sentence.
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:09   #42
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post
@Gordo, let me say again NOT A TROLL, and to be honest I didnt want you cat guys here stinkin up my thread with this cat piss.
I was looking for opinions on knock downs from mono sailers, because it happens. Why do the cat crew get so defensive over this stuff.
Then you should more carefully edit before you post. You said I don't want to be on a cat in a storm on the ocean, it can capsize, it's a deal breaker. If you were only concerned about severity and probability of monohull knockdowns why bring up cats at all?
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:17   #43
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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All monos pop back from 90 degrees and more.
What, never? / No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ever!

(H.M.S. Pinafore)

I can't find the picture of someone standing on the keel of a J-24 trying to right it like a dinghy. (Yes I know I'm picking an extreme case of a race boat not designed for offshore, but you said always. )
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:24   #44
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pirate Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

A 'J' boat....?
The keel likely fell off..
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:45   #45
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Re: Knocked down 90 degrees

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The escape hatch just makes sense. Of course, it's possible for them to go over and you need to have a hatch. That's sort of like asking if I know why commercial aircraft have rescue slides. They need them. Doesn't mean that I hesitate to fly just because there's a safety slide installed.
A few years back, 15 or so years. a cat was racing in a double handed lake huron race and was turtled. both sailors died. experienced sailors I might add.
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