Is Cruising on the Decline ?

[gettinthere]

have the aussie authorities heard of polyestermites? they'll soon be banning fiberglass boats from their waters!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I have to agree. You are basically squatting on another countries land. If you can't afford the $300, you can't afford to support the economy either.

It would be interesting to know what is considered "cruising" also. If your "cruising" do you ever move your boat? 1 time per week, month?

I'm a boat owner but not a cruiser but I would hazard to guess that I sail my boat more per month then 1/2 the "cruisers" in the St. Martin area.

Palarran,

I'm not quite clear on who you are referring to in the above.

If it was directed at us (Jim and Ann on Insatiable II), I can say that we do often move our boat. EG, since we bought Insatiable II in 2003 we've logged over 39,000 sea miles, both along the Australian coast and within the Southwest Pacific basin. We have lived on and cruised our boats full time for the past 24 years. I submit that this should qualify us to voice an opinion as full time cruisers.

So, I will admit that I can "afford" the minimum of $330 for the AQIS inspection. I can even afford the $600 fee if I should inconvenience them by arriving out of office hours (and have actually done so in the past). I could with some pain afford to have my boat inspected by a dog and then be fumigated to rid it of suspected termites, and then refit the timberwork ruined by the fumigation. BUT, I don't really want to do these things, even once. I especially wouldn't like to face the termite folks EVERY time I returned to Oz from our normal 4-6 month trips through the islands, and that is what the new legislation specifies. Again, I'd like to point out that other nearby countries do not have such restrictive or expensive rules for visiting yachts.

Thus, we are indeed rethinking our future travels, and I think that it is fair to say that Australia will be slightly poorer if we take our dollars elsewhere. Certainly our individual decision won't drive the Australian economy to its knees, but if several hundred other west bound cruisers decide similarly each year it will affect some of the support industries in a noticeable manner.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Church Point, NSW, Oz, southbound

[meyermm]

Firstly by taking out of context by some what I am saying I have no control over. But a few points Jim - You seem to have a problem about arriving in office hours. We arrived at 11PM on a Sunday night in Brisbane proceeded to the Quarantine wharf provided and went to bed. As I thought I had notified them that our arrival was to be the Monday I phoned on Monday morning and informed them that we had arrived. A short time later they arrived and carried out the formalities, including a thorough inspection of the boat for arms and drugs, they were particularly looking for arms. They pointed out the fact we had arrived earlier than my notification which I had not realised. We did not pay extra but really is it such a problem arriving during daylight hours, would you enter an anchorage at night if all the advisory was against?
Most cruisers would enter and leave Australia once not every year for twenty + years. Oh and why do you come and go just speculating but I gather you are not a local so you probably dont have residency status which is probably an extra incentive. As for the boat has it been imported (import duty paid)or is it also here on cruising status which also means it must leave last time I checked yearly.
Maybe you would like to tell us what it would cost me to do the same in the US or EU countries. Having read a few accounts of cruisers in the EU and their run ins with authorities over long term stays it would make us look like a free go. Twenty years ago our dollar was worth about half a US dollar so we would have been very very cheap. With the recent parity of the US/Aus dollar maybe that has more to do with your rethink not to mention boredom and looking for some place new.
As for the Canadian's comment, on a recent subject not sure which one there was discussion about the fact that US citizens are regularly knocked back for entry into Canada because of a past minor conviction.

I think that the saying about people living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones may apply to a few here.

[Palarran]

Jim Cate, my comments where not directed towards you at all. I'm just wondering what is a "cruiser". I just see so many boats that don't move, ever. And if they do move, then go the the next 1 day sail destination and then camp there for another month. Certainly not all of the boaters, but a lot of them.

As far as the charges, heck, I'd like everything to be free in my life. But the reality, which my country has a hard time remembering, is everything costs something. What that amount is I don't know but it seems a pretty good deal to be able to cruise a countries waters for a year and only pay $300 and some change for the right to do so.

[jackiepitts]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

Jackie, I'd assume you have sailed your teak laden beauty between USA and the Caribbean a few times. Do the US govt authorities give you any kind of a hard time or charge unreasonable fees?

Vic

We have sailed a few times between Mexico and the US and can tell you that checking back into the US after being gone several months in Mexico is extremely easy. There is a small charge of around $20 US dollars since the customs officers do have to come to your boat but in the past the customs officers have waived that fee and just asked us to pay it on line in the future. There were no searches only a few simple questions and they were on there way. Our experience with US customs (and Mexico as a matter of fact) has been extremely easy (especially when I hear about the hoops that must be jumped through in Australia)....interesting.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Palarran

What that amount is I don't know but it seems a pretty good deal to be able to cruise a countries waters for a year and only pay $300 and some change for the right to do so.

So from your perspective, it would be OK for Anguilla, Nevis, Antigua, Montserrat, Guadeloupe etc. all to charge $300 whenever you enter their waters, even though you may only be staying a day, a week or a month, but since you conceivably stay a year, that is OK and seems cheap, right?

Is the principle, from your point of view, the ability to stay a year cruising "in country", or does your principle change because of the size of the country?

Just askin', you know, as the saying goes, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Or, looking at in another say, seeing we are talking geese here, maybe it is a great way to kill the golden goose?

Just sayin'.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by meyermm

Firstly by taking out of context by some what I am saying I have no control over. But a few points Jim - You seem to have a problem about arriving in office hours. We arrived at 11PM on a Sunday night in Brisbane proceeded to the Quarantine wharf provided and went to bed. As I thought I had notified them that our arrival was to be the Monday I phoned on Monday morning and informed them that we had arrived. A short time later they arrived and carried out the formalities, including a thorough inspection of the boat for arms and drugs, they were particularly looking for arms. They pointed out the fact we had arrived earlier than my notification which I had not realised. We did not pay extra but really is it such a problem arriving during daylight hours, would you enter an anchorage at night if all the advisory was against?
Most cruisers would enter and leave Australia once not every year for twenty + years. Oh and why do you come and go just speculating but I gather you are not a local so you probably dont have residency status which is probably an extra incentive. As for the boat has it been imported (import duty paid)or is it also here on cruising status which also means it must leave last time I checked yearly.
Maybe you would like to tell us what it would cost me to do the same in the US or EU countries. Having read a few accounts of cruisers in the EU and their run ins with authorities over long term stays it would make us look like a free go. Twenty years ago our dollar was worth about half a US dollar so we would have been very very cheap. With the recent parity of the US/Aus dollar maybe that has more to do with your rethink not to mention boredom and looking for some place new.
As for the Canadian's comment, on a recent subject not sure which one there was discussion about the fact that US citizens are regularly knocked back for entry into Canada because of a past minor conviction.

I think that the saying about people living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones may apply to a few here.

meyer,
This is getting a bit tedious, but I'll try once again and address some of the points you've made.

You cite arriving at 2300 on a Sunday night, but not notifying authorities until the following morning. You got away with it that time, but in fact were in breach of AQIS regulations which require that they conduct their inspection within 8 hours of your arrival. Lucky you...

We have requested and been granted the privilege of anchoring at Yellow Patch (tip of Moreton Island) overnight prior to clearance in Brisbane. Similarly once in Gladstone, but one other time there arrived at the quarantine berth at 1645 (foolish us) and were required to immediately undergo clearance at the premium price. Situations vary and different officials interpret the rules differently, so it's hard to make generalizations.

You make light of successfully arriving at some particular time, but when coming from distant places with passage times of many days we've found it difficult at times. One can slow down to delay a few hours without much stress, but to languish for an entire weekend is not as easy. Further, once within Australian national waters one is at least supposed to proceed directly to the entry port... not that this is often questioned IOE.

Now, why do we come and go? Well, it's because that's our particular style of cruising. We typically spend the winters cruising in the tropical islands and return to Oz for the cyclone season, most often in Tasmania. Not sure why this bothers you, but it is what we like to do. And you are quite right, we are foreign nationals... but we have been granted Australian class 410 visas which classify us as "temporary residents". We can come and go as we please for the 4 year term of the visa, but not access any of your social welfare or medical benefits. As to the boat, if you had read our earlier post more carefully, you would have noted that we did indeed import our previous boat, and that Insatiable II is an Australian boat and thus can stay here as long as she wishes. So, turns out that we're legal after all.

As to the costs and difficulties of visiting the USA or EU -- I can offer no knowledge or experience, but since it was not the subject under discussion, I don't see that it matters much.

The initial subject of the thread was the dying out of cruising. Since the subject of diminished numbers of cruisers on the Australian coast was introduced earlier, I reckon that the unusual regulations and expenses of entering Australia, and the prospect of destructive termite eradication are issues that might well help explain the observed trends.

Finally, I must admit that the reference to stones and glass houses simply mystifies me. Perhaps you could explain it?

Jim

[superdave]

well,,austrailia has been a pain in the ass for decades,who would want to quarrentine thieir pet for 6 months and put up with their paranoia about immigrations, (but I do Understand ) babyboomers are making plans and we are getting ready....just hope the coastal communities do not enact laws that impinge on our freedoms. It seems Uncle Sam dont like it when you fall of the grid, no revenue collected... having lived outside the US in my lifetime , I aint skeered to go away.....

[zeehag]

my boat came with wood masts. judging by the "reception" that is given here-- you from OZ or what ever you wanna call your dream world have a bit of an attitude i will thankfully avoid. my boat is fiberglass with woood masts, built in taiwan. i have a ships kat for security and he NEVER goes ashore. thereare very many places in this world that are decent friendly places with online representatives who are not competing with any attitudes. LOL.. have a great life .
oh yes--i NEED th ships kat to rid the boat of the vermin picked up in places with bad attitudes LOL....kat and bug spray..LOL

[meyermm]

Well Jim the subject was as you say the decline in cruising numbers not a bagging of Australia thread which you and others have turned it into and don't seem to like the idea of me an Australian defending it. If I walked down the main street of a US city telling all that would listen how **** the place is with all their rules and regulations what do you think my reception might be. Maybe an offer of a lift to the nearest international airport I expect. Oh and you really did not answer my point of exchange rate which I am sure is another rason to influence cruisers. By the way I live very near the Gold Coast and there is a small cove near Sea World which contains many visiting cruise boats from all over the world the numbers are increasing if anything certainly no decrease that I can see.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by meyermm

Tom if your going to run the country down at least write facts not fiction. The termite inspection is for yachts being imported not cruising. It is applied in cases where the boat has extensive wooden interiors, older style boats. Australia is what it is because of many of the rules and regulations, yes sometimes they can be annoying and seemingly not needed and no doubt some are but I have travelled to a lot of the world and still think it is a great place to live. Australia is a safe place to travel and live if you don't like it as they say P off.
I happen to like the US and its people even though they made me travel 2000kms to Sydney and back to Brisbane just to have a ten minute interview at the US Embassy to gain a Visa. Why did I need the Visa? Because I was travelling through the US to Mexico on a one way ticket and had to stop over one night in LA not transit. The trip was to buy a yacht to sail back in so one way ticket only required. No Mexico did not care so maybe I should live in Mexico

Not correct. EVERY yacht entering Australian waters is open to a termite inspection. Importing is irrelevant to the inspection but is relevant to the repair or fumigation. If the customs guy thinks you are suspect in the termite department he will issue a Time Limited Pratique which is a notice to fix the problem or leave town. You get 1 year max. It is possible to refuse to do the work and leave within the allocated time which may be just fine for some cruisers. If you are importing, the work or fumigation or whatever become mandatory provided you still wish to import.

Details here.

Operator Guidelines for vessels less than 25 metres - DAFF


Word around the waterfont, a place where truth is paramount, is that some years ago meyermm's newest best girl ran off with an American cruiser and he has been dirty on them ever since. Apparently, at a very tender and impressionable young age, he was on his first visit to one of those $20 bars in a seedy Australian port with a pole in the middle of the room. He thought it was a roof support. Out comes the spectacularly well endowed Miss Fifi la Joie who proceeds to polish the pole etc etc. You know the rest. She then leaps into his lap and tells him she loves him but can he buy her a drink. Being a polite and obliging young man he passes her his glass of water. A wily old American cruiser, well versed in the ways of the world, leaps forward and hands Miss Fifi a rum and coke with one hand while deftly tucking a $100 greenback into her g string with the other. " Wow, real American money, that is worth a fortune down here " she exclaimed as her eyes lit up with joy. ( I told you this was years ago )

Miss Fifi and the cruiser were last seen walking out the door hand in hand. meyermm was left alone with nothing but a vacant pole, his thoughts, a few tears and half a glass of water.

None of you should be too judgemental of poor Miss Fifi. She came from one of the finest American families and had poured all of her life savings into her dream of cruising a genuine Herreshoff ketch. She had successfully crossed the pacific and arrived in Australia with a song in her heart and not one but two wooden masts in her ketch. Then came the customs man with his termite inspection, then the dogs, then the fumigation, then the new masts, then the bills, then the $$$$$$$$$. Poor Miss Fifi ( real name Ethel Kowalski of the Topeka Kowalskis ), what was she to do ? She had to pay the customs man to get her boat back. Financial embarrassment and total impecunity forced her into a life of degredation, pole polishing and the occasional $100 bill.

And so boys and girls the moral of this little fable is that you should never mess with the customs man because it can only end in tears.

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by jackiepitts

We have sailed a few times between Mexico and the US and can tell you that checking back into the US after being gone several months in Mexico is extremely easy. There is a small charge of around $20 US dollars since the customs officers do have to come to your boat but in the past the customs officers have waived that fee and just asked us to pay it on line in the future. There were no searches only a few simple questions and they were on there way. Our experience with US customs (and Mexico as a matter of fact) has been extremely easy (especially when I hear about the hoops that must be jumped through in Australia)....interesting.

Australia does not have any land borders but does have a neighbour called New Zealand which has much the same laws as we have and both countries allow easy access back and fourth just as you seem to have with Mexico.
Australia is a country with a land mass nearly the same as the continental USA but our population at this time is around 24million. Being one big island that is a lot coastline to watch over considering our population which is centred on the East coast. That makes it a very expensive proposition to try and keep control of that massive amount of coastline. My daughter is going to South America for a holiday in the New Year and has had to undergo a number of doctors visits for shots against things like Rabiis wrong spelling etc. These are diseases we don't have and I am sure you would agree we should keep out so this old argument about animals having to be quarantined will not hold water with most clear thinking people.

[Mike43]

Take it easy guys. Australia is trying to lead the world in self funding public servants. The 48% tax plus the 10% GST when you try to spend whats left isn't cutting it.
I hear they are going to put water meters on the fire engines next.

[catty]

Originally Posted by meyermm

By the way I live very near the Gold Coast and there is a small cove near Sea World which contains many visiting cruise boats from all over the world the numbers are increasing if anything certainly no decrease that I can see.

There may be many reasons for this apparent decline in cruisers on the Australian coast. Customs and Australian officialdom in general, has been discussed to great lengths, on "the coastal passage" website, and may be of interest to some posters here.

Meyerman, are you referring to what is colloquially known as""Bums Bay" on the Gold Coast. This was very empty when we stayed for a few days last month. In the past it has been very congested with cruisers, but I notice there are large signs stressing penalties for those anchoring for more than 7 days, and only 24 hours is permitted on the Gold Coast side.Do you think the enforcement of these regulations has anything to do with the numbers?

Regards

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Mike43

Take it easy guys. Australia is trying to lead the world in self funding public servants. The 48% tax plus the 10% GST when you try to spend whats left isn't cutting it.
I hear they are going to put water meters on the fire engines next.

48% tax ? Even I can't agree with that one.

As Maxwell Smart once said " Would you believe 15% ?"

In the alternative you could admit that you really meant domestic income tax at the highest rate.