Insurance

[hellosailor]

One of many dirty little omissions I learned of, from Al Golden at IMIS. www.imis.pro

They'll be the first ones to tell you, they're not always the cheapest, but they try to be competitive, and they are true professionals in the best meaning of the word. I don't know if they can write Canadian policies.

[linla60]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

One of many dirty little omissions I learned of, from Al Golden at IMIS. www.imis.pro

They'll be the first ones to tell you, they're not always the cheapest, but they try to be competitive, and they are true professionals in the best meaning of the word. I don't know if they can write Canadian policies.

Again, good information from you. I just filled in a request for a quote from this company (IMIS). From what I saw, it appears that they do insure Canadian. Will let you know what the quote was when I receive it. Thanks again. If you can think of any more 'dirty omissions' please let me know. I'm a rooky at this insurance thing.

[Ram]

Im very surprised that no one is bringing up the very real chance that your insurance Co. is going to be bankrupt in the next year - with this world wide recession - it would be a shame to pay your insurance bill and when you need them there out of buz. and they have your money- So many of them are in real troble- I have not decided if im going to pay mine this year-

[hellosailor]

At least in the US, I think all insurers have to partake in insurance pools (typically state run) which protect consumers from that problem. In most of the US a "state insurance department" or "commission" would have the fast answer to that. As would a good broker.

[linla60]

Originally Posted by Ram

Im very surprised that no one is bringing up the very real chance that your insurance Co. is going to be bankrupt in the next year - with this world wide recession - it would be a shame to pay your insurance bill and when you need them there out of buz. and they have your money- So many of them are in real troble- I have not decided if im going to pay mine this year-

Hi, Ram

Yes, I know what you mean. I understand that AIG is at the bailout trough again. They just received 140 billion in bailout funds six months ago and are back again, this time asking for 80 billion after announcing a loss of 120 billion last quarter. I don't think the government will let them go bankrupt. To do so would be catastrophic to the insurance industry in the US as they are the biggest. I'm not sure what influence it would have on the Canadian insurance companies. I understand totally how you feel but I'm kind of determined to continue living my life as normally as possible (I have taken some safeguards) and not take years off my life by worrying about something that I have no control over. I kind of figure that if I lose $417.00 in insurance premiums through my insurance company going broke, that will be the least of my worries. If things are getting that bad, I will be trying to sell the boat to pay my mortgage payments.....LOL. Isn't life grand...yeah, it is.

[Ram]

Linla60

It makes sence to pay $417- however my premium is about 10 times that and im not sure "today" if I want to take that chance , my feelings are now starting to change a bit- Im my best insurance, ive been paying insurance on things all my life and have never had to use it- to buy insurance you are betting aganst yourself-

As I watch how the economey is quickly getting worse every day -I would be willing to bet that most if not all of those insurance co.s are in the same boat or close to AIG and no ones going to bail them out because there not big enough-

So wile my premium is due in about 1 month from now I still have not decided to pay it yet- Im onboard 7 months a year and wile onboard I dont really need the insurance its when im in America and the yacht is in Africa/EU is what worrys me- Im soon going back about the same time my insurance is due-
so I may skip this years payment and see how the market shakes out -

[Sam Plan B]

I own a Columbia 41. It is insured through Boat US. They required me to take the US Coast Guard Auxiliary boating safety course before they would write the policy. My coverage permits me only to cruise the Cheaspeake. It does not cover me beyond Cape Henry. I don't know how coverage works for blue water cruising.

Sam

[hellosailor]

Ram-
"wile onboard I dont really need the insurance "
Do the marinas in Greece not require liability insurance before they'll let you rent a slip? Or are you transient only, and no one asks?

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ram-
"wile onboard I dont really need the insurance "
Do the marinas in Greece not require liability insurance before they'll let you rent a slip? Or are you transient only, and no one asks?

No one asks or cares. you only get asked once when you come in the country and no one is looking at it very hard if at all then- it would be easy to make your own copy of your policy and make a few change's if you felt you needed to-

[Sam Plan B]

Ram, you are playing with fire. You must know how expensive it is to get anything repaired on the water if your boat does damage to another vessel or to a dock. It can be tens of thousands of dollars. If you need a tow your boat may be impounded pending payment of salvage fees. I don't know the answer to cruiser's insurance. Maybe someone else can shed light on the subject.

Sam

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

Ram, you are playing with fire. You must know how expensive it is to get anything repaired on the water if your boat does damage to another vessel or to a dock. It can be tens of thousands of dollars. If you need a tow your boat may be impounded pending payment of salvage fees. I don't know the answer to cruiser's insurance. Maybe someone else can shed light on the subject.

Sam

Sam perhaps your right- but would it be any better if I paid my insurance and then a few months later the compney went bankrup or like AIG?

I feel im reasabule in qustioning the Insurance compneys ability to pay a claim-any of them - the carrer I have is rated "A" like AIG was last year -now look whats happened to them.
I hope you will look at your insurance co long and hard before you make that next premium- to be sure your not just giving away money- I really hope they are there for you and I in our time of need-

In my case
Ive been a active boat owner and operater since I was 8-9 years thats over 42 years experence (my first boat picture on on left) along with being A charter boat owner/biz. for 13 of those years and have never had to make a claim- my current vessel is 3 years old-& has 2 engines and sails - so im not worred about having to be towed in or running into a dock or anything eles.
Dont get me wrong ive made a ton of mistakes, just about all you could think of im my life time-maybe if I decide to go with out insurance this year it will be a mistake- not sure- but I am very careful and my record and my insurance rates prove this-

you learn a lot if you have spent a life time loving and living a life style and you evantualy make fewer costly mistakes - I hope_
the other picture is me with a Queen Trigger we caught on one of our outings

[hellosailor]

"but would it be any better if I paid my insurance and then a few months later the compney went bankrup or like AIG?"
Things must be much less regulated in Greece. Here in the US, first off, AIG hasn't gone bankrupt, it is in fact selling off the profitable insurance divisions with no loss of service to the policyholders expected.
Second, insurers in the US are required to put money into coverage pools. If your insurer DOES go bankrupt, a state agency makes sure that another insurer takes over the coverage (at no charge to the policyholders) or makes the policyholders whole, directly.
Is Greece really a place where insurers are allowed to operate without any protection against loss?

And if it was a good idea for you to carry insurance before--why would you change your mind now, and think you'd been wrong for all the prior years? Insurance is not "betting against yourself" it is joining a pool of other policyholders, and amortizing risk among the pool to prevent an individual catastrophe.

[linla60]

Originally Posted by Ram

Linla60

It makes sence to pay $417- however my premium is about 10 times that and im not sure "today" if I want to take that chance , my feelings are now starting to change a bit- Im my best insurance, ive been paying insurance on things all my life and have never had to use it- to buy insurance you are betting aganst yourself-

As I watch how the economey is quickly getting worse every day -I would be willing to bet that most if not all of those insurance co.s are in the same boat or close to AIG and no ones going to bail them out because there not big enough-

So wile my premium is due in about 1 month from now I still have not decided to pay it yet- Im onboard 7 months a year and wile onboard I dont really need the insurance its when im in America and the yacht is in Africa/EU is what worrys me- Im soon going back about the same time my insurance is due-
so I may skip this years payment and see how the market shakes out -

Hi, Ram

I can understand the indecision that you are going through. The amount of insurance that you pay, compared to me, is a considerable amount. I am not trying to sway you in either direction but, personally, have always hoped for the best but planned for the worst. Like yourself, I have always had everything under the sun insured and, guess what, folks, never had a claim on anything. But....I could sleep at night. Expensive sleep but sleep. It sounds like you have an expensive boat if it is only three years old. You mentioned that you were most concerned when you were in the States and your boat overseas. What is your primary concern? Is it theft, vandalism or many things. If the boat is that new you wouldn't be worried about it sinking while moored, would you? Could you not have a limited insurance policy just covering theft or whatever area that concerns you? Cutting your losses a bit but not paying as high a premium? I don't know what your policy covers now, so am just shooting in the dark to maybe help you with a solution, though I am sure that you have thought of all of these possibilities already. Another solution may be to find a trustworthy mature person and offer them free liveaboard on your boat in exchange for security while you are gone. Or rent it out for liveaboard only (no sailing) and use that money to offset your insurance costs. I don't know where your boat is and none of this may be possible for various reasons. Just a thought.....

Best of luck, Ram. I hope that you come up with a solution (decision) that you can rest easy with.
Regards, Linla
ps. If you are interested in the name of my insurance company to compare rates, let me know. They are a Canadian company but have an office in Seattle. Been with them for 12 years.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"but would it be any better if I paid my insurance and then a few months later the compney went bankrup or like AIG?"
Things must be much less regulated in Greece. Here in the US, first off, AIG hasn't gone bankrupt, it is in fact selling off the profitable insurance divisions with no loss of service to the policyholders expected.
Second, insurers in the US are required to put money into coverage pools. If your insurer DOES go bankrupt, a state agency makes sure that another insurer takes over the coverage (at no charge to the policyholders) or makes the policyholders whole, directly.
Is Greece really a place where insurers are allowed to operate without any protection against loss?

And if it was a good idea for you to carry insurance before--why would you change your mind now, and think you'd been wrong for all the prior years? Insurance is not "betting against yourself" it is joining a pool of other policyholders, and amortizing risk among the pool to prevent an individual catastrophe.

First Im a US citizen and have my Insurance co in America - they do go belly up sometimes-and they can leave you with little or no corvage- let me give you an instance that happened to me not too long ago- I was driving my truck in S. Florida and a guy did not see me and turned into me the accdent was his fault and resulted in $3000+ damages- his insurance Co went out of bussness shortly after and I recieved a letter stating that I should make a claim to some state agent- so I did - about 7-8 months later I heard from them saying I needed to do xyz in order to get paid- so I did the xyz and then about a year and a half later I receved a check for around $600- did this help me in my time of need? Not really- if I needed the $ to fix my truck I would have been out of luck- today my truck still has a large dent in its side-
you asked
And if it was a good idea for you to carry insurance before--why would you change your mind now, and think you'd been wrong for all the prior years?

Thats easy- - Ive been wrong with a lot of things Ive done in the past for sure I admit this- but as I get older I hope to learn from my mistakes- i was wrong all these years paying the Insurance bill-looking back with 20/20 hindsight- I never needed them and I never have benifited from them- if you look at the balance sheet Im down 10s of thousands of $ perhaps even 6 figures-- So yes in my case I was wrong / I could have done a lot with that kind of extra cash

-You mention Insurance is not "betting against yourself" it is joining a pool of other policyholders, and amortizing risk among the pool to prevent an individual catastrophe

WIle this may be part true - you are still betting that something negitive is going to happen to you- your paying someone for the risk you are going to have a problum-and they are betting that you are not going to have a problum- yes- no?- Seems to me thats betting against yourself -

[Ram]

Originally Posted by linla60

Hi, Ram

I can understand the indecision that you are going through. The amount of insurance that you pay, compared to me, is a considerable amount. I am not trying to sway you in either direction but, personally, have always hoped for the best but planned for the worst. Like yourself, I have always had everything under the sun insured and, guess what, folks, never had a claim on anything. But....I could sleep at night. Expensive sleep but sleep. It sounds like you have an expensive boat if it is only three years old. You mentioned that you were most concerned when you were in the States and your boat overseas. What is your primary concern? Is it theft, vandalism or many things. If the boat is that new you wouldn't be worried about it sinking while moored, would you? Could you not have a limited insurance policy just covering theft or whatever area that concerns you? Cutting your losses a bit but not paying as high a premium? I don't know what your policy covers now, so am just shooting in the dark to maybe help you with a solution, though I am sure that you have thought of all of these possibilities already. Another solution may be to find a trustworthy mature person and offer them free liveaboard on your boat in exchange for security while you are gone. Or rent it out for liveaboard only (no sailing) and use that money to offset your insurance costs. I don't know where your boat is and none of this may be possible for various reasons. Just a thought.....

Best of luck, Ram. I hope that you come up with a solution (decision) that you can rest easy with.
Regards, Linla
ps. If you are interested in the name of my insurance company to compare rates, let me know. They are a Canadian company but have an office in Seattle. Been with them for 12 years.

Linla my main concern is theft, when I’m gone -I always pay someone to watch the boat when I’m gone - I think that’s a wise thing to do-I’m not worried about sinking- my Insurance Co. is supposedly one of the best in the Marine buz- and maybe they are, I’ve heard they have been very good to folks paying claims in the past but that was before the world had this big down turn- things ARE different now- I’m paying about 1/3 less with them then with any other Company because they have a special program for those with many years experience on the water and no claims- so I’m not complaining on the prices they are charging me - I’m more worried about their ability to pay any claim-in a world wide rescission- because they may go out of biz- I’m weighing the risk/ reward ratio here and with the current economy I’m revaluing these things

Why pay if I lack confidence in any Insurance Co>?