Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2013, 21:23   #1
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

so i went for a water test today on a sailboat...
the owner was 90, and did not come.
he sent his son.
and he didnt really know how to sail so well...
we put up the main, the jib was sticking up top, so we left it in.
i could not get the main to fill out, thou it was not up 100% of the way, 95% up was all we could get in the wind.
so whats the issue? i tensioned up the sheet on the traveler, still no luck.
i tried every wind position, still no luck, we managed it up all the way, still no luck.
thou i must say we were moving. wind was at 11 O'clock, blowing 10KTS-25KTS variable. we must have been going 4KTS with just one sail up.
here are some photos of the main...

also to any expert eyes, does this sail look good?




__________________

__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 21:59   #2
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

i can't be sure, but it looks to me as if one of the battens may have caught on a lazy jack line.

I suggest you practice using the lazy jack, and raising and lowering the mainsail, at the dock on a calm day.

As for the headsail, that scares me -- you may have a halyard wrap that interferes with raising the sail completely. If so, it can seriously compromise your forestay. If that's the problem, there's an inexpensive solution (if the forestay hasn't been compromised yet) -- a halyard restraint.

That's not all the possibilities, I'm sure. I'm just talking about the dogs that have bitten me.

Another problem with the mainsail is that it may have caught on something installed on the mast, like a steaming light. The fix for that is to make sure the halyard is completely free (just follow it up the mast with your eyes) before trying to raise it. if it's caught on something, that's much more easily (and safely) dealt with at the dock. Loosen the headsai a little, shake it or move it with a long boat hook until it's free, and then tighten the halyard again.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:15   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

Does that main sail have a Duchman flaking system and if so does part of the system need to be slacked to free up the main sail? Hard to learn how to sail on the internet. It is really a hands on thing even though some of the younger generation are trying to turn it into an electronic computer game. I suspect what you need is a combination of reading and real time sailing on small boats in class or with someone who knows what they are doing. I learned how to sail the hard way by reading and doing on small boats 12-20 footers and had very little instruction. It would have been easier with instruction.
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:25   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

The topping lift (the line which holds the end of the boom up when the sail is not doing so) needs to be slackened.

The last photo suggests there's a line running from the topping lift to the sail for some purpose hard to guess from the photos, which has become hung up on the leech.

You need to go sailing with some people who know what they're doing, and learn your way around a boat.

It's just not a great option trying to puzzle it out from such a scant base, and the internet is no place to learn this stuff.

You need to know the basics before you need them.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:30   #5
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

That def looks like a hung up dutchman reefing system. You can see the lines passing through the sail.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:35   #6
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

You went sailing with the deck hatches open?

That's completely irresponsible.

Get some lessons. NOT ON THE INTERNET. On a boat.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:49   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
That def looks like a hung up dutchman reefing system. You can see the lines passing through the sail.
You can also see the word Dutchman on the lower tab in the last picture.

Scoobert, what are you going to do with a large Tayana that you can't even sail?
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:54   #8
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Scoobert, what are you going to do with a large Tayana that you can't even sail?
Replace the deck?
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 04:47   #9
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,316
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

the Dutchman lines are all messed up!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:06   #10
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

With the mainsail... the luff is stuffed... it should be held up tight and in the 'groove' by the luff rope or slides... if you have not sussed that your as bad as the 'son'... also your snagged up in the lazy jacks... these need slackening when the sail raised or the battens hook it up and act like a topping lift and stop the boom setting the main correctly..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:38   #11
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,940
Images: 1
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

Scoobert.

Your mainsail has a Dutchman flaking system. This is the line running from the back end of the boom to the top of the mast that has the 3 lines running down through the sail.

From the pictures it looks like this was too tight when you hoisted the sail, which will raise the boom end and stop you from getting the sail all the way up. The Dutchman system should be just taut when you raise the sail, allowing the sail to glide up the 3 lines. When you are sailing, you should ease the Dutchman until it just hangs loose, allowing you to trim the sail with the appropriate trim possibilities.

When you are ready to lower the sail, tighten up on the Dutchman and when you lower the sail, it will flake perfectly.

The Dutchman is a good system, but you have to practice a few times to learn how to use it.

Regarding hte jib/genua, hard to say. Halyard wrap is a possibility, but then so is something sticking in the furled drum. Some sailors tie off the furled drum to keep the genua from unwrapping if it blows up. Could be that is the problem here, although that would mean the jib would stick at the bottom, not the top.

I really would strongly advise yo to get some sailing lessons before buying a boat.
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:52   #12
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
I had the same problem the first time I went sailing. I didn't know to release the topping lift.
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 06:16   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

thanks for the replays guys.
the olny reason i was sailing when i didnt know how is because i wanted to make sure everything was good, and i was under the impression the son knew how to sail.
when we got out on the water i was pumping him for sailing information.
he was calling both tacking and gybing "coming to" and then he made a very hard gybe. at that point i knew he was not quite sure of how to really sail.

why am i buying a sailboat when i dont know how to sail? because one can learn.
my wife and i agreed that we will be hiring a licensed sailor to come on our boat and teach us.
i understand the basics. i understand the big dangers (hard gybes can throw you off the boat or kill you). i have learned most of what you can learn from reading.

as for the flaking system, yes. it has a Dutchman. how does one slack off a Dutchman? it was connected to the topping lift. the first one was very loose, the last two were about 8" of slack.

i mainly just want to make sure the sail is OK.
we are under contract right now and he is fixing a few things that i made part of the contract.
the son said he is a diver, so i will get the last bottom scarping for free.
(or maybe he just told me he is a diver, and has scuba tanks and thinks he is)
also he was going to ascend and figure out why the halyard was spinning when he tried to open the headsail.
the headsail will be unwrapped before my final payment. This thing needs years of solid work. teak repair is not the only major thing wrong. (although he seems to think it is.)
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 06:18   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

oh, and why do you not sail with the hatches open? just the danger of falling thru while on deck?

i am just glad the boat has this.
what would i do without it?
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 07:51   #15
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: I Can't Sail, What Am I Doing Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
oh, and why do you not sail with the hatches open?
In anything but very calm conditions, you run the risk of taking a wave on the deck and having all that water go right down the hatch. On the other hand, when the conditions are right, I have sailed with some of the hatches open before. It is a bit of a risk, but then so is all of life--risks are meant to be managed, not necessarily just always avoided entirely.
__________________

__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.