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rtbates · 01-05-2012, 06:57

Nope... No guns on board, no guns in my cars, no guns in my house, no guns in my life...

goboatingnow · 01-05-2012, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

There are a lot of us who feel the "organs of the state" have far too much power already, and a huge self-interest in disarming the little people aka citizenry. Indeed, I can't think of many examples where government has done a good job running anything, at least here in the US.

"If the people lead, eventually the leaders will follow." This is a notion that will continue to gain momentum. It may be the only way thru this current mess.

I fully agree with you, The US has created a monster of local, state and national government. BUT, the solution to that is the ballot box, not armed citizenry. I see no evidence that the US is disarming its citizenry, in fact if anything since the 80s there has been massive liberalization of gun laws in the US, The concealed carry argument demonstrates that , from 8 states to 37 states.

So if the US isn't disarming its citizens, just who are you directing your comments to. The fact that a government may be good bad or indifferent in no way justifies arming the citizenry. what it does do is justify more elections. Maybe if the US had more political parties rather then two identikits, people might have more choice perhaps if there was a proper left to right political process, more things might change. But what in the heck has firearms got to do with it.

Why is it that the pro gun defense lobby must attempt to create a fog of fear , crime everywhere muggers everywhere and the gov are out to get me, when on the country the very opposite is true, Why ? of course we know why, fear makes people act irrationally, and irrational people accept things they would wouldn't other wise ( See the history of the Weimar Republic or the Spainish revolution for a good example)

Look at what has been done to personal rights in the US as a result of Homeland Security, all justified on the back of more fear.

**minaret** · 01-05-2012, 07:17

I love the justifications. "I don't carry a gun because I'm afraid, I carry it because it allows me to be unafraid." That is a ridiculous statement. If you are not scared in the first place why do you need a gun to be unafraid? I can legally carry in 37 states, and I often do. But that's because I often go places with lots of people who scare the crap out of me. Not afraid to admit that.

To the guy who gives his children deagle 50s, i sure hope they are big hearty teenagers at least. That is a lot of hand cannon to control. I would much prefer my FiveseveN for the boat, especially with small crew.

goboatingnow · 01-05-2012, 07:21

Quote:

But that's because I often go places with lots of people who scare the crap out of me. Not afraid to admit that.

Why? Does your job require it?

I can understand a policeman being armed, ,but why would you go to a place that scares you that much.

Dave

Kalinka1 · 01-05-2012, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I am afraid this is the greatest load of gun twaddle I have ever read, essentially it rabbits on about muggers, Carrying a lethal weapon can never be described as a civilized act, and thats why countries with long experience of civility ban them.

The facts guns turn people into bullies, invite conflict and turn simple conflict into dangerous armed face-offs. It achieves nothing

I have asked this before, the US is the onlysociety that carries on like this and reasons like this, this debate simply does not happen elsewhere. Why is that?, ( I am reminded of the the joke, honey theres a report of a car driving the wrong way down a freeway, oh no honey there all driving the wrong way!)

The pro-gun lobby in the US has debased an original view of armed militia to justify an armed society. A situation that no other country tolerates.

Im not anti gun, I own several. I am anti personal defense by guns, totally and completely. Thats not anti-gun, its a reminder that I live in a civilised society when personal safety is correctlyentrusted in the organs of the state.

The problem I have with this view ist the last sentence. The state,(any state) cannot be trusted to protect everyone all the time and most of the population none of the time. We all bear some reponsibility to look after our selves.

**minaret** · 01-05-2012, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Why? Does your job require it?

I can understand a policeman being armed, ,but why would you go to a place that scares you that much.

Dave

Basically, yes. My wife is Charge Nurse at the King County jail, which is also Seattles metro jail and one of the largest psych facilities in the state. She works swing, the busiest shift, and I often pick her up downtown in front of the jail in the middle of the night. You would need to know the location to understand just how hairy that is. Every career criminal and psychopath in the city is on a first name basis with her. Many don't make it more than a few blocks after being released before they are readmitted. A few years ago one of her associates was stabbed over 60 times by a disgruntled former "client". She lost both her eyes. Heroin addicts and crack junkies remember you when you tell them no, you can't have that methadone, or anything else. I do my best to protect her. It's hard.because every con standing on a street corner knows her face. Most respect and appreciate her for what she does, but some are just scumbags or psychopaths.

Celestialsailor · 01-05-2012, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cburger

Hey Lt. may I Suggest you try "Soldier of Fortune" magazine.

...and spell check!...

SimonV · 01-05-2012, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

...and spell check!...

Why do you feel the need to draw attention to others spelling? IMO (notice there is no H) that is the height of rudeness on any forum.

evm1024 · 01-05-2012, 08:07

let's see, responsible countries have disarmed their citizens because the government is able to protect them from the anti-social who live among them. Thus Mass Shootings are rampant in America.

Were there any mass murders in safe, Gun Free Europe? Can't be right? That happens only in America.

Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.

Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.

Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.

Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.

Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.

Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.

Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.

Naples, Italy, Sept. 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall. (This incident is not included in the totals given below because it may have involved the Mafia.)

Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.

Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.

Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.

Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.

Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.

Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.

Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.

Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.

Of course there is Norway to add in.

zeehag · 01-05-2012, 08:11

onlyheat inmy boat is my cook stove, af orce 10 , 3 burner variety propane one.
i DO pack a mean louisville slugger complete with ss gaff of good size....

one needs not BEG for troubles in another country.
we get to forgetting that usa isnt the world. we can be arrogant and obnoxious--we dont need to shoot our way across the seas. we can easily avoid problem areas, and thus cruise in peace and harmony with other souls in this planet.

smooth sailing.

GeoGoddess · 01-05-2012, 08:23

It's always bothered me that the mind that thinks it's a good idea to carry personal firearms is the same mind that will choose if/when to shoot them.

To wit: Several of my relatives have legally allowed weapons in their homes based on their fears around protecting their property. Have they ever had this happen? No. Do they keep their valuables in a safe? No. Do they have noisy dogs? No. Do they have good relationships with their neighbors? No. Do they have alarm system? No. All of which seem to be less extreme methods of addressing their fears. So, in their minds, it seems better to bypass less lethal effective means of protection and go straight for the most lethal and potentially most dangerous to innocents. This is the same mind that might hear me moving around in the night to use the bathroom as a guest in their home. That's enough to scare the crap out of ya.

JoeDiver · 01-05-2012, 08:36

LOL.....I love these threads.

IMHO....I'll just add to the soup.....

Bad guys carry guns. Period. No mater where you are in the WORLD. Bad guys carry guns. They want guns banned, and laws enacted to prevent citizens from carrying guns. They're vocal about it. Oh, they'l still carry and use guns no matter what the laws are. They just don't want their victims to have them.

So, do you want to equalize the equation? Or not and depend on someone else (the state, the CG, whoever) to defend you. Your choice. You either want to defend yourself, or hope that an authority will be on hand to do it for you.

Simple?

I carry a weapon because it is my right to do so and I am licensed by the state. It is my personal choice to do so.

Notice I used the word "choice" twice....it is very important. It is and should be my choice, your choice, to carry or not. Do not make my choice for me by enacting stupid ass gun laws that only hurt the citizen and enable the bad guys. (remember, they're gonna carry no matter what the laws are) You make your choice, and I'll make mine. I'm an adult. I'm capable.

TeddyDiver · 01-05-2012, 08:50

A lot of "!#%¤

IMHO (mark the H)
I have a gun at home.. allways have had atleast one. But it's for hunting and target shooting. Never carry it around without either of the previous reasons. Except duck hunting I've not carried a gun when boating.
Someone having a gun just for "protection" makes me feel uncomfortable to know such yellow belly freekies might be around. Stay home in the celler and shame you..
BR Teddy