Carbon fiber mast conversion for ease of stepping and unstepping

[captlloyd]

And then there is the idea of unstepping the mast doing the Great Loop. It really doesn’t make much sense on the river system portion. By that I mean once you un-step in Chicago you are not going to want to raise your mast until Mobile. There just is not much sailing space on the rivers. And if you take the St. Lawrence route into the Great Lakes you might not have to lower your mast at all on this section.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Bingo. That's the OPs answer. The rest of this thread is just added info.

I'll add that the stainless parts, rope, radar, and wire rigging will weigh more than the CF mast itself, and you might be surprised how much that is. I replaced just my 47' upper shrouds with Dyneema, and weighed the 8mm dyform steel wire which came out to about 14 pounds (I don't remember whether that was "each" or "both"). That might not seem like a lot until you think about trying to hold that out at the end of a 50' + pole.

Also, a 50+ foot CF mast with all the needed custom fittings will cost upward of $50k plus rigging labor. That can hire a lot of cranes.

Until we were informed of the weight comparison there was mere unsupported opinion for consideration. With the weight comparison subsequently provided it became meaningful and correct.
Not that it matters here, but some idea of the weight comparisons between SS rigging and Dyneema would still be of interest. Racers with big budgets tend to worry about weight somewhat more than cruisers with more restricted budgets (just my opinion, while not evaluating strength and endurance considerations for either).

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Well here's a couple for you. Oswego Marina on Lake Ontario and Riverview Marina in Catskill on the Hudson River. Usually you take the boom off yourself, that's how it works. Easy to take a boom off with the main still on and covered. Please tell me how I could accidentally damage my headsail on the foil. Hoist the mast lash the foil to the mast, very easy. I have done this about twenty time on my CS36 when I used to take it south. And about eight time on a buddy's boat.

The reason you might not have seen a single sailboat on the Erie Canal this fall with the sails still on is that most folks on the Great Lakes only take the mast down in the fall and naturally you take all the sails off for storage in the winter. That's the way they've always done it. I can tell you that everyone I've told of the method I use adopted it and wondered why they didn't do it the first time. Much easier, no sail storage problems, and a lot less work. As for not being practical I think it's much more practical. Think about it and better still try it on your way home.

Oswego marina requires the sails removed before they unstep masts. I used them this fall ( a few months ago) and they specifically stated that the masts need to be prepped, sails removed, inner shrouds removed etc. in prep for demasting. haven't used riverview but hop-o-nose is the same. strip the masts before they work.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

And then there is the idea of unstepping the mast doing the Great Loop. It really doesn’t make much sense on the river system portion. By that I mean once you un-step in Chicago you are not going to want to raise your mast until Mobile. There just is not much sailing space on the rivers. And if you take the St. Lawrence route into the Great Lakes you might not have to lower your mast at all on this section.

All that depends on your goals.

Re the St. Lawrence the question is whether you want to see the Erie Canal, Lake Chaplain, the Rideau Canal, or the Trent-Severn waterway, and if so what kind of a boat you want to be on when you do it.

Leaving via Mobile there are some lakes worth sailing along the Tennesee-Tombigbee waterway. Depending on river levels and mast height it is possible to raise the mast after clearing the bridges in Northern Illinois. Controlling clearance is 47.4' on the Des Plains and Illinois rivers once past the Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal. Clearance on the Tenn-Tom is variable depending on water levels but often over 50'.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Oswego marina requires the sails removed before they unstep masts. I used them this fall ( a few months ago) and they specifically stated that the masts need to be prepped, sails removed, inner shrouds removed etc. in prep for demasting. haven't used riverview but hop-o-nose is the same. strip the masts before they work.

You must have misunderstood Oswego. They require that the boom be off and rigging prepped. Most places that do masts require this as it minimizes time under the crane or gin-pole.You can leave your main on the boom when you take the boom off, the marina doesn't care how you remove the boom, sail on or sail off. You can leave the headsail on the foil, it makes no difference when removing a mast. When you get under the crane the mast must be ready for removal. Many folks don't understand that all the marina does is pull the mast and then lay it in the crutches or supports you have made and that might be why they tell first timers to remove the sails.

By the way I have yet to damage my sails doing it my way. Next time you take your boat south or if you're returning to the Great Lakes, try it my way, you might be pleasantly surprised. :]

[olaf hart]

Here in Oz my insurer refuses to cover boats with carbon masts, says there is no one in the country who can repair them.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Jammer

All that depends on your goals.

Re the St. Lawrence the question is whether you want to see the Erie Canal, Lake Chaplain, the Rideau Canal, or the Trent-Severn waterway, and if so what kind of a boat you want to be on when you do it.

Leaving via Mobile there are some lakes worth sailing along the Tennesee-Tombigbee waterway. Depending on river levels and mast height it is possible to raise the mast after clearing the bridges in Northern Illinois. Controlling clearance is 47.4' on the Des Plains and Illinois rivers once past the Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal. Clearance on the Tenn-Tom is variable depending on water levels but often over 50'.

I question some of your ideas. The OP has a 37 ft. blue water boat. I don’t think you are going to want to be popping that mast up and down many times to sail 60 miles. I can’t see sailing much at all on the Illinois. Lots of barge traffic to contend with. And some of the canals you mention will not accommodate a 37 ft. sailboat. Yes he could take the Erie Canal, no problem. But a journey up or down the Saint Lawrence would be a fine experience also.

[Cheechako]

-Loose footed main/no boom.
-Dyneema rigging
-small cross section spar design for low weight. (many racing rigs use tiny extrusions)

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

I question some of your ideas.

I question many of my ideas. For clarity, I am the OP.

Wouldn't we all like a fantasy vehicle? Like the one Ian Fleming described in "The Magic Car: Chitty Chitty Bang Bang." Twist a knob, it's a river barge. Pull a handle, it's a ski boat. Lift up a lever, it's a bluewater sailboat.

I don't have the 37' boat yet, I'm planning, I'm trying on ideas. I like inland lakes and rivers, and am trying to figure out what I can do with a single boat, and what I have to do some other way. I'm planning around the shoal draft version of the Pacific Seacraft 37, which has a published draft of 4'10". You could take it in any of the canals I've listed especially if it is lightly loaded with the journey in mind.

One of the conclusions that I'm reaching is that draft is just too limiting to see much of the English canal system in a bluewater boat. Yes, there are parts of the Trent and the River Ouse and a few canals that were built later, but the main networks are too shallow. So either I'm never going to see that area, or I'm going to have to rent or lease a boat locally to do it, which means it might as well be a trip I take before I have a true cruising boat of my own.

I don't think that's true of the Canadian canals or the Eire or the Tenn-Tom. Rather than buying and reselling a boat after a year just to explore these areas, I'd be better off making do with the boat I intend to use in the Caribbean and beyond, particularly since the seasons work out so that these areas compliment each other.

There's no reason locally to pull the mast for access to otherwise inaccessible bodies of water, except for some of the trailer sailors in the channel between the upper and lower parts of lake Minnetonka. So I'm trying to understand. It's pretty clear to me that carbon fiber is not part of the answer.