ARC 2015

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Polux

By the way have you seen this one that is going to "race" too? Brand new boat and a production one LOL. I am not sure if the girl comes with the boat.

Yes. Asparagus (or is it Asperger?) is here too I saw them coming into the basin. The girl as pictured is off course just another advertising stunt. Or else they keep her chained to the genset. Not visible on the deck nor walking the pasarelle. Perhaps we should board and free her ??? ;-)

It is however quite tall and boxish, unlike the delight (which looks low and slim). I think Hong Kong registration but no idea where built. Maybe Turkey again.

There will be two Sun Fasts 3600 on the line. They are a bit like the Figaro boat. They look of the shelf but definitely smell performance. Could be a good choice for a sporty mom and pap.

b.

[barnakiel]

Then look at ARC+ results, leg one. Corona Aq took the podium. Then look at Corona Aq. Here is a brief: 1965, 32', long and narrow double-ender, with a crew of two mature sailors and a deckhand.

Also on plain time basis they did so well compared to huge Swans and carbon fed Shipmans! They also outperformed Bavarias, Benes, and other boats with microwave ovens on board ...

b.

[donradcliffe]

I think the fuel stop may be the main reason for the ARC+. Winds can be variable and light departing from the Canaries, and many times you have to motorsail down close to the Verdes to get to dependable winds. If the ARC is handling the checkin hassles, why not stop?? In addition, the ARC+ leaves for St Lucia 4 days before the main ARC, even though the course is shorter, so you will be one of the early arrivals=more parties.

That Turkish boat has windows that might look sexy at the marina, but are way too big. Not only do you have structural issues, the greenhouse windows mean you must air condition the boat.

Downwind races in the tropics are not good points of sail for condo cats. With their big mainsails and little jibs, you either take too much risk or you heavily reef the main for the night squalls, leaving you with not enough sail area. It would be interesting to hear from the Lagoon 38 who did so well--my guess is that he was a hard core racer who flew a chute the whole time, vs the bigger cats who went with the jib and double-reefed main.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Then look at ARC+ results, leg one. Corona Aq took the podium. Then look at Corona Aq. Here is a brief: 1965, 32', long and narrow double-ender, with a crew of two mature sailors and a deckhand.

Also on plain time basis they did so well compared to huge Swans and carbon fed Shipmans! They also outperformed Bavarias, Benes, and other boats with microwave ovens on board ...
b.

It is good not to confuse real time performance with compensated time performance. Being them in the podium only means that the boat was very well sailed regarding its rating. I followed the ARC+ here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-a-155773.html

That's a Laurin 32, a fast boat in its time. I believe they had done the rally last year too. Very good sailors and since they sailed the boat to the rating they were ahead of lots of bigger boats that were not so well sailed.

The boat better sailed was a Lagoon 38 that beat a lot of bigger cats, including performance ones and arrived just a bit after an Azuree 46 and a Oyster 575, both reasonably well sailed.

Anyway, as you know a boat can be sailed to his rating but no considerably above it and what I am really interested, like last year, is not about some exceptionally good performances or about some exceptionally bad performances, but about the performance of average sailors on different types of boats...and there are lots of average sailors on the ARC ;-)

[Polux]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

...
Downwind races in the tropics are not good points of sail for condo cats. With their big mainsails and little jibs, you either take too much risk or you heavily reef the main for the night squalls, leaving you with not enough sail area. It would be interesting to hear from the Lagoon 38 who did so well--my guess is that he was a hard core racer who flew a chute the whole time, vs the bigger cats who went with the jib and double-reefed main.

Well, upwind sailing is the worse sailing point on a condo cat and since there very few upwind sailing here I would say that it will suit condo cats.

Regarding Lars, the skipper of that lagoon 38, yes he races his boat but the crew are two couples and yes he uses a spinnaker. That thread about the ARC+ was started by him. Regarding the other cats I don't believe they are using small jibs but big poled Genoas and Geenakers. Nobody would come to an Atlantic crossing, kind of a soft race, without downwind sails.

Regarding fuel you may be right and that will be easy to check when they post the fuel each boat has wasted.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...
It is however quite tall and boxish, unlike the delight (which looks low and slim). I think Hong Kong registration but no idea where built. Maybe Turkey again....
b.

Never saw the boat but it seems to me that you are being too harsh. Maybe you look at it too close: that's a 80ft boat. I saw an Avanced 66 on the water and I can tell you it is a very nice and elegant sailboat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5qpNIbKTu0

I don't think the 80 would be uglier. Advanced Yachts is an Italian Brand and they are made in Italy.
ADVANCED - Italian Yachts

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...
There will be two Sun Fasts 3600 on the line. They are a bit like the Figaro boat. They look of the shelf but definitely smell performance. Could be a good choice for a sporty mom and pap.
b.

Not quite, the Figaro II in what regards racing is already an old design (12 years) even if a very good one. It was designed as a solo sail offshore racer. If it was designed today it would look a lot more with a Pogo 36, or if we want to stay with racing boats with a class 960, that is a kind of a smaller class40 racer.

The Sunfast 3600 is a very modern design but not a pure racing boat like the Figaro. It is a racer-cruiser that has all to do with racing and very little to do with cruising. The interior is a racing one and the boat was developed with two types of racing in mind: IRC Regatta racing (where the boat has done well) and the Transquadra, that is a solo or duo amateur transat (very popular and with a huge number of boats racing). The boats that can race there are limited in rating and the Sunfast 3600 is as close as one can get from the max rating allowed. For instance, a Pogo 30 is out of the allowed rating even if smaller and with a much better cruising interior. The Sunfast 3600 interior:


Curiously the boat that won the last Transquadra was a JPK 10.80, a boat designed at the same time, with the same sailing program, very similar to the Sunfast 3600 but with a better cruising interior and two interior "windows" that allows a forward view from the interior of the boat:




Anyway those boats demand a good sailor to be sailed fast and are less forgiven then a true solo sail boat, like the Pogo 36 (that is also faster) or a boat JPK designed for that purpose and that I like a lot, the JPK 38, I mean only for fast cruising with solo offshore sailing as one of the main design criteria:







This one, or a Pogo36 would be the logical choice for a sportive mom and pap (among others).

[barnakiel]

Yep. I am aware of the fine differences of the fleet but I have never sailed the JPK. I have actually never seen one yet.

I will likely sail the 3600 and then the new 40s2 but being just brief harbour trips these say nothing about how they feel offshore. I bet they must feel fantastic even if you will often have to slow them down for the night.

The problem, my problem, is that my crew likes only the sporty ones. I know this sounds odd but to get a sporty one cruising I would opt for 40' as a minimum and then they get out of our financial reach.

I might have to say I am sorry to the Babylon, if I want to sail faster ;-)

Cheers,
b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep. I am aware of the fine differences of the fleet but I have never sailed the JPK. I have actually never seen one yet.

I will likely sail the 3600 and then the new 40s2 but being just brief harbour trips these say nothing about how they feel offshore. I bet they must feel fantastic even if you will often have to slow them down for the night.

The problem, my problem, is that my crew likes only the sporty ones. I know this sounds odd but to get a sporty one cruising I would opt for 40' as a minimum and then they get out of our financial reach.

I might have to say I am sorry to the Babylon, if I want to sail faster ;-)

Cheers,
b.

I did not know you were looking for a boat but I love that your crew wants a sporty one LOL.

I don't have a clue about your needs but the more amazing sailboat I have looked at recently in what regards price/performance is on the last post of my blog. Have a look and also how you can finance it chartering it. With the number of berth that one has just taking "guests" on the ARC will pay you 40 or 50 000 euros LOL.

There are plans for a smaller boat with a similar program. Anyway, we are talking about a boat that costs only 10% more than a Bavaria. They are also making a special price for the first 10 boats... but probably this one is too big for you....but they are going to make a 42 too, so why do you not visit the shipyard, just to see if they are for real...and charter the big one for some days, just to see how it sails?

[Polux]

And guess what? You are going to see that boat first than I do and we will be able to have an idea of his performance because it is doing the ARC.

Look for a boat named Pixel and tell me how it looks, for a boat that costs just 10% over a Bavaria.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Polux

I did not know you were looking for a boat but I love that your crew wants a sporty one LOL.

I don't have a clue about your needs but the more amazing sailboat I have looked at recently in what regards price/performance is on the last post of my blog. Have a look and also how you can finance it chartering it. With the number of berth that one has just taking "guests" on the ARC will pay you 40 or 50 000 euros LOL.

There are plans for a smaller boat with a similar program. Anyway, we are talking about a boat that costs only 10% more than a Bavaria. They are also making a special price for the first 10 boats... but probably this one is too big for you....but they are going to make a 42 too, so why do you not visit the shipyard, just to see if they are for real...and charter the big one for some days, just to see how it sails?

It is not so much looking for a new boat as it is thinking along the lines of which boat could take us to new places and new experiences. We have already been everywhere along the easy route so now it is only either ice or doing the easy route in a different boat (meaning: in a fast boat).

Chartering is never part of our vision as we do not rely on external funding. We do things within our means, at our own schedule. I frankly detest charter layout in boats and even IF (yes, a big IF when you consider the cost) we were in a bigger boat, it would be likely an "Amel 55", not a "Bavaria 55". All names here have been invented for the sole purpose of this story.

We are also not very likely to buy anything from a boatyard. I have enough experience to buy a 3 to 5 year old boat, pocket the difference and use it to make the boat exactly what we want. This could be pretty nerve wrecking to listen to another boatyard representative telling me their boat is perfect only her skipper is just another moron.

As I said, however, most good 40+ stuff is way beyond our reach - unless I join the dark side again.

BTW One boat I really like (looking at her from the dock) is Frangipani. She is on the ARC (a German alloy thing, Bergmeister, Bermeyer, Bergstein?).

http://www.charter-direkt.com/upload...teiname_01.jpg

She is very sweet except for some details. BUT being an alloy boat, the details could be corrected quite easily.

PS Corona Aq must be like their 4th (?) time in the ARC? I saw them on the other side about two winters ago too. They always sail that fast. As for that Lagoon you mention, I can no longer see the times on the tracker. How did they do? I only looked at the Catanas that were up front as both of them belonged to people I met before.

PS I walked up to the Aspergers (Asparagus?). No like: to high, too off white, to plasticky, and Mickey M graphics on the topsides. Think of a Hanse on steroids (and the Hanse wins hands down). She looked way better from the distance.

Cheers,
b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

.... I frankly detest charter layout in boats and even IF (yes, a big IF when you consider the cost) we were in a bigger boat, it would be likely an "Amel 55", not a "Bavaria 55". All names here have been invented for the sole purpose of this story....
Cheers,
b.

You get it all wrong, blame it on my English

What I said was for you to look at Pixel, a new More 55, a true performance boat with very interesting design characteristics, that only cost 10% more than the Bavaria 55.

Last post on my blog is about it. There is one (the first one built) on the ARC and I am very curious about the performance. A boat of that type and built quality at that price is quite a revolution. Never saw anything like that, I mean price/quality. The boat is crossing the Atlantic to do charter on the Caribbean and to be at a US boat show.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Polux

You get it all wrong, blame it on my English

What I said was for you to look at Pixel, a new More 55, a true performance boat with very interesting design characteristics, that only cost 10% more than the Bavaria 55.

Last post on my blog is about it. There is one (the first one built) on the ARC and I am very curious about the performance. A boat of that type and built quality at that price is quite a revolution. Never saw anything like that, I mean price/quality. The boat is crossing the Atlantic to do charter on the Caribbean and to be at a US boat show.

I will try to get closer to Pixel and have a good look. Can't remember seeing her on the "biggies" dock, she may be on the opposite side of the marina then. If I spot her, I will report back.

Quality is you know like that movable feast. On one hand there is finish quality which tends to be high on many modern boats on the other hand there is the long term view of how well a boat ages - does she stay stiff, does she shed keel early, do the engineering solutions applied work out in the long term, etc.

As a general rule, IMHO, there is good chance for quality when a boat is built in a boatyard with long tradition, based in a country with equally long boatbuilding tradition and when the rotation of the workforce on the plant is very low. It takes time to train people and it takes money to keep them. This is a poor prognostics for any good quality/price product, as long as the quality component is considered.

Doh.

Today had a fine chat with one of the smaller Oysters. We exchanged some views and I learned new things. The day has not been wasted.

Cheers,
b.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

As for that Lagoon you mention, I can no longer see the times on the tracker. How did they do?

Cheers,
b.

You can still move the slider near the bottom of the tracker to move time backwards and forwards. The Lagoon38 Havhunden was second cat to finish behind Catana 47 El Gato.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

....

As a general rule, IMHO, there is good chance for quality when a boat is built in a boatyard with long tradition, based in a country with equally long boatbuilding tradition and when the rotation of the workforce on the plant is very low. It takes time to train people and it takes money to keep them. This is a poor prognostics for any good quality/price product, as long as the quality component is considered.....
b.

Croatia has a modern tradition in what regards boat building. The More 55 is built in near Split, were the Salonas are built too. The similitudes in building technology, including the stainless steel interior grid, besides the location, makes me suspect that Saolona, or ex workers are involved on the building of the More.

Besides Salona (and several motorboats) there is a top yacht built there, the Murtic.
MURTICYACHTS - Technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1TnxzT_moY