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Old 02-12-2015, 17:06   #196
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Re: ARC 2015

That's how it is with a lot of rallies. We saw some boats from a RTW rally, and really it was virtually a RTW delivery trip.


Couldn't see the point myself.
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Old 02-12-2015, 18:09   #197
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Re: ARC 2015

Thanks Dale for the nice words

Back to the ARC, two more boats are racing to the finish, a beautiful 2014 104ft maxi yacht, a Southern wind, that goes fast with style and a 60ft race boat with already some years, a Carroll Marine 60 that has done a good race and is ahead of another bigger (and older) race boat, a Grand Mistral 80.

I bet on Farfalla to be the 2th to cross the finish line and I am partial about it: what a lovely yacht









Behind this three the Pogo class40, now with the right rudder on the water is sailing fast and I bet on him for 5th, unless the wind changes and they will need to tack a lot. The bigger Knierim 49, a cruiser-racer seems to be the other candidate and it has made an amazing passage beating much bigger boats. A beautiful and fast sailboat:



Then probably a big Oyster 825 or the Marten 68 that are almost side by side and that are having a nice mano a mano.

Next the battle is probably between an Advanced 80, a X-562 and a Neel 45R. What a trio Very different boats all of them. The Neel 45 seemed to be out of this fight but now with stronger wind it become very fast again. That one does not like light winds, that favors the X yacht, but downwind with medium and strong winds is a blast.

Very curious about what really is the Racing version of the Neel, about the weight and the quality of the lighter interior as well as the price. A pity the standard interior to be so badly designed.
For me one of the revelations of this ARC:


Then a quarteto, a charter racing boat, the Challenge 72, an Oyster 48 , a BD 80 and a Baltic 56. Chapeau to the crew of the Red Oyster that is making a hell of a race: fighting with a 72ft race boat, really!!!!



And then the first cat and second multihull, the first of the two Outremer 51, in a very interesting fight with a Pogo 50. Unfortunately for that fight it seems the Pogo has problems: It is going very slowly, doing only 6.7K while the Outremer is doing 8.4K. I hope it is only a busted spi and that they can repair it.




Tomorrow I will have a look at the faster boats with less than 50ft.

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Old 03-12-2015, 00:23   #198
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
A Swedish friend send me some very interesting news about that Pogo 40 (Swedish crew) with a broken rudder that sometimes seems to go fast, sometimes seems to go slow (more fast than slow) and not always on the same tack. The explanation is funny: they dismount and change the only rudder every time they change tack

"For a few days we have been flying on a starboard tack. Wind easying a bit and boat speed last day was down to 10 knots. Felt like we were standing still!

But the time for a gybe were approaching as the weather forecast indicated a shift in the wind from 70 degress to 90. Due to the broken rudder on starboard side we cannot sail on the port tack. So when we finally had to gybe, to avoid ending up in Florida, we also had to switch the rudders. Moving the working port rudder to the starboard side.

It is indeed a risky thing to do, removing the rudder in the middle of the Atlantic. But the trick was to mount an M8 screw at the top of the rudder stock with a line attached to it. Then removing the rudder head and dropping the whole rudder down into the ocean. Then getting the line from outside and picking up the rudder. With a total stopping time of 2.5 hours including bringing down and up the sails, we are now up to speed on a port tack! Full main and grand spi we are again making some 10 to 13 knots in a light breeze!

Great work from everyone onboard and now we are flying towards Saint Lucia, the reggae and the Rhum!"


Mikael, Skipper"
Sheeeee - it! Changing your rudder in mid-atlantic? I stand in awe I've dropped the rudder on my Jeanneau on the hard - no way I would want ot drop it and remount it at sea.

How do they get the stock back up in the bearings? it's a mess getting this alignment right.
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Old 03-12-2015, 06:39   #199
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Re: ARC 2015

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Sheeeee - it! Changing your rudder in mid-atlantic? I stand in awe I've dropped the rudder on my Jeanneau on the hard - no way I would want ot drop it and remount it at sea.

How do they get the stock back up in the bearings? it's a mess getting this alignment right.
Yes that is quite an accomplishment. I helped dropping ad remounting mine. At least two guys holding it vertically and another guy on the cockpit to put it in position and lock it.

Anyway that is probably only possible on two and a half hours because each of two rudders is much lighter than a single one and because it is a race boat, they are made with better high quality materials and that makes also the rudder lighter. Anyway, chapeau to them
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:49   #200
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Re: ARC 2015

A quick look at the cruising boats with less than 50ft that are going fast:

The faster by a very large margin is that Knierim 49, a carbon cruiser racer with a good interior, that seems to be on another league. The second one is the Neel 45 trimaran. They call it a racing version but I trust that means only a more sportive boat with a not very different interior, even if lighter. Anyway that awaits confirmation.

The third one is a more "normal" boat, a Oyster light wave 48, that is even ahead of the Outremer 51 and the Pogo. It is an old cruiser racer that has been used practically only for racing even if with a good cruising interior. Curiously it is a central cockpit sailboat.

The next one is a Grand soleil 46, a recent performance cruiser (now substituted by the 47). Great boat with a nice interior.

Followed by a recent Fountain Pajot Salina 48 (now substituted by the Saba 50) that is outsailing the 2nd Outremer 51 showing (like the Lagoon 38 on the ARC+) that the performance on the ARC of condo cats is not very different than the one of performance cats. The FP48, as all condo cats of this size, as a huge cruising interior, for the lenght.

Very near sails a Grand Soleil 43, a boat that was for many years my dream boat, beautiful boat with a good cruising interior, as all Grand Soleil:

Near the Grand Soleil 43 an amaizing Luffe 37.09. The Luffe is a quality performance cruiser, an old design that continues to be made by the shipyard, along with more modern designs. It has a small quality interior that will suit some for cruising. The owner of that one cruises much more than he races. A great boat and a great performance:

Followed by a XP 44, cruiser racer, the first of 4 Lagoon 450 that are on the ARC, a wauquiez 40s performance cruiser a Sunfast 3600 Racer cruiser and a Swan 44, all very close.

Not great the performance of the Xp44. The Lagoon 450 is being very well sailed and is not far away from the 2nd Outremer 51. It is not the first time that I had seen Lagoons 450 making great performances on the ARC.

The Sunfast 3600 is having a good performance but the boat is much more a racer than a cruiser, quite contrary to the Wauquiez 40s that is a great performance cruiser with a great cruising interior.


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Old 04-12-2015, 08:48   #201
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Re: ARC 2015

And the slower boats on the ARC+ are arriving at the same time of the fastest on the ARC

My prognostic is right till know and the 2th to arrive was the Maxi Southern wind that beat, not for much, the Carroll 60. Next, but quite far away, come another racer, a Grand Mistral 80. The next would be the Pogo Class 40 and they are on a position for that but sailing slowly. Wrong tack again?

Next the Knierim 49 is battling with the Marten 68 while the big Oyster 825 is a bit behind. Then the Advanced 80, the Oyster 48 the X562, the Neel 45, the BD 80, a Baltic 56, the first Challenge 72, the first cat, the Outremer 51, and the Pogo 50.

Yesterday I said that it seemed to me that the Pogo had blew their downwind sails and it seems that is quite possible since after sailing side by side with the Outremer 51 for days they are now sailing 1.3k slower.

Next comes another Challenge 72 and very close and coming faster, that Baltic 64 that come on the Southern route. Then the grand Soleil 46 and the Fountain Pajot 48, the second cat.

Just some bigger boats behind the Fountain Pajot, at only 51nm, comes the the Grand Soleil 43, the Luffe 37 both ahead of the next cat that is the 2nd Outremer 51.

At only 24nm from the Outremer 51 a Xp44, a Lagoon 450, a Sunfast 3600, a Swan 44 and a Wauquiez 40s.

The more 55 continues to sail fast (9.5K) but on an odd course, like if they did not have a spinnaker or a gennaker? If it is the case that would explain the odd choice of courses but makes no sense: With a new boat they should be interested in doing a good performance and a good performance on the ARC is not possible without downwind sails.

The wind is quite strong, around 20K and it will be like that on the next days so it will be a sweet and fast ride till Santa Lucia. ;-)
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Old 04-12-2015, 20:13   #202
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Re: ARC 2015

Interesting! Magritte,a Moody Grenadier has been abandoned due to water entering from unknown location,crew picked up by a spain bound freighter.
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Old 04-12-2015, 20:45   #203
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Re: ARC 2015

Also the Atlantic odyssey is crossing at the moment. You can track the boats here
http://cornellsailing.com/sail-the-o...6/track-boats/
Seems a catana 42 finished first, followed by a helia 44 at about 18 days for 3000 miles. About the same time as Gordon and Lou finished equal first on The Larrikin (helia 44) in last years rally. We're currently anchored in Rodney bay (sailed through the finish line today ) so will see some of the arrivals before we head to Martinique for the scoop on the odyssey in a day or two.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:16   #204
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Re: ARC 2015

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Interesting! Magritte,a Moody Grenadier has been abandoned due to water entering from unknown location,crew picked up by a spain bound freighter.
That seems not to confirm that good old boats are more seaworthy (when old ) than more recent production boats. That Moody is a more than 30 year old boat. Last year I was badly impressed with an old Motiva (steel very well built passage maker) losing the rudder and also some years ago a 53ft very "seaworthy " old 53ft Bruce Roberts being abandoned.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:19   #205
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Re: ARC 2015

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Also the Atlantic odyssey is crossing at the moment. You can track the boats here
Track the Atlantic Odyssey boats - Cornell Sailing
Seems a catana 42 finished first, followed by a helia 44 at about 18 days for 3000 miles. About the same time as Gordon and Lou finished equal first on The Larrikin (helia 44) in last years rally. We're currently anchored in Rodney bay (sailed through the finish line today ) so will see some of the arrivals before we head to Martinique for the scoop on the odyssey in a day or two.
That is a very small rally, even smaller than the ARC+, the coverage is horrible with no wind information and without possibility to go back on the tracker. A Portuguese boat is arriving now after the 4 first (that are cats) and I don't even know what boat is, if it is a cat or a monohull, neither the size.

After that unknown boat come 3 monohulls, one of them an Oceanis 423 and since the tracker does not allow to see what is the brand of the boats it is very difficult to know the order of them behind those 3 monohulls. There are behind those 3 monohulls more 7 cats.

Anyway if you think the results of such a small number of boats is meaningful open a thread about that Rally and post there your findings. This thread is about the ARC, a big rally with hundreds of boats that due to the size and number of boats can give more meaningful results.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:59   #206
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Re: ARC 2015

Back on the ARC:

The Marten 68 managed to beat the Kierim 49...but by only a bit more than 20 minutes....What a passage for that Knierim 49!!!

The Marten 68 is a great performance cruiser and fast, but that big difference in sizes puts the focus on the much smaller Knierim 49 that beat, for a large margin, the Oyster 825 that won the battle between the three luxurious 80ft cruisers. But before the Oyster finished the Pogo Class 40, clearly handicapped after having lost a rudder.

The two next boats to enter will be the X-562 and the Neel 45 trimaran. The Neel 45 experienced some troubles and lost pace on the weaker winds but downwind with medium to strong winds it is a damn fast boat. He is following the X-562 and is faster 1.1K on those conditions.

Then three more boats, The Oyster 48, the BD 60, the Baltic 46 and the first cat, the Outremer 51. It will be interesting to follow since the Oyster is on a completely different course to the finish. The Baltic and the Outremer are not very far away, on the same course and the Baltic is just doing more 0.2K.

From all the boats on the head the Pogo 50 is the fastest, doing over 10k. It seems to have sorted out the problem that was handicapping it (they have mended the sail?) but it is too late now to recover the time they have lost sailing very slowly. They are concentrating now on not being overtaken by that Baltic 64 that come from the Southern route and that is close now, sailing on the same course, but going slower 1K.
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Old 05-12-2015, 17:08   #207
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Re: ARC 2015

More boats arriving:

The Oyster 825 beat the Advanced 80 by 5 hours, the X-562 beat the Neel 45R trimaran by about two hours and a half.

Next, an interesting fight between David and Golias, the little Oyster 48 and the big BD80. They come on different courses, the little one is a couple of miles ahead but the BD80 comes faster by 1.1K. That is going to be a close one

Then another couple, the Baltic 56 and the Outremer 51. The Baltic is ahead and has been ahead since the middle of the passage but the Outremer is coming faster by 0.4k, with 90nm to go. For catching the Baltic the Outremer has to do better than that.

Not far comes the first of the challenge 72, the big charter racer

The Pogo 50, with the exception of the BD80, is the fastest boat on the fleet, going at almost 10k, it increased the distance to the Baltic.

Lets look today at the cats, not the first ones, that are the 1st Outremer 51 and a Fountain Pajot 48 that is making a great rally ( just behind a Grand Soleil 46 and a Oyster 625) but about the ones that come next.

The one that follows is another Outremer 51, but the Lagoon 450 that follows it not far is making a far better passage, taking into account the different speed potential of the two boats. That Lagoon 45 is many miles away from the other 3 Lagoon 45, sailing practically at the same pace of a bigger Lagoon 52, having very close a Lagoon 56.

All the other cats are very far away even if bigger, like a Fountain Pajot 58. One of the last is a Fountain Pajot 46 that with 15/16k wind is going at less than 6K.

That Fountain Pajot Salina 48 deserves a better look:

Very much a condo cat, meaning that it is a true condo and that is a good thing, that does not prevent it to go fast downwind at a great pace.

I wonder if the new Saba 50 that have substituted it is as fast. It does not seem to be the case, the Saba has just two more feet but it weighs 50% more and the sail area is not that different (141m2 to 132m2).

Why do they have changed the boat program making it slower? It is a Fountain Pajot decision since the designers are the same. Any guess?

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Old 06-12-2015, 20:51   #208
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Re: ARC 2015

Do endless ranting thread highjackers really think anyone reads their off topic novels?
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Old 06-12-2015, 20:59   #209
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Re: ARC 2015

Note: LOVE the on-topic detailed updates!

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Old 08-12-2015, 13:17   #210
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Re: ARC 2015

Sorry about the lack of updates. I am receiving a couple of Saint Malo sailors that use to sail with us and that this time come not by boat but by car. We are having fun with them enjoying the sun, wine and good food, showing the nice places around.

Let's make a point of the situation:

The Knierim 49 arrived just twenty minutes after the Marten 69, the Pogo 40, with a broken rudder, arrived 2 hours and a half later (cheers to them) beating the big Oyster 825 that beat the Advanced 80 on the fight for the first 80ft luxury cruiser.

18 hours after the Knierim 49 arrived the X-562 that beat the Neel 45R trimaran by 2 hours. The Neel 45 made a great passage and I would not have believed that it could be so fast downwind. It remains to be seen what the R of racing stands for, in what regards difference of weight for the standard boat and the kind of interior it has. I hope it has a decent cruiser interior and the price would not be very different from the standard boat.

Six hours later arrived the Baltic 56 that beat The Oyster 48 by only 8 minutes!!!!!. 40 minutes later arrived the first cat, the 1st of the two Outremer 51. 11 hours later arrived the Pogo 50 and not far the Baltic 64.

Followed a big Challenge 72 charter racer that quite surprisingly was followed not far by a Grand Soleil 46!!! that beat a Oyster 625, a Oyster 825 and that on the last day managed to went away from the Fountain Pajot Salina 48 , the 2nd cat, that arrived 5 hours later.

A great performance for the Grand Soleil 46 but also for the Fountain Pajot 48, a condo cat that managed to beat the 2nd Outremer 51, a bigger performance cat.

To be continued
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