Alcohol consumption whilst at anchor

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

My attitude towards alcohol consumption changed after living in Germany, many drank lightly while on the job there with no issues, of course they drank just a little, even operated heavy machinery while drinking.
The only falling down drunks I remember ever seeing over there, were Americans.
Myself I don't get drunk, haven't for years. As a kid I did, but as I have gotten older, I can't get drunk. Long before I get drunk I get a headache and don't feel good, so I stop as who wants a headache?
I guess I have developed an alcohol allergy or something. Also as alcoholism runs in my family I guess I'm a little paranoid about it too.

Agree, im very similar. I have a similar allergy.
Adding more rules does not cure stupidity. It just creates more uselessness, it just keeps dumbing down our society. Obviously we need rules but there is dimishing returns regarding relgulating our way to better lives.
A previous poster said that Australia isnt a country of piss heads, I disagree, its actually very much in our culture. Achohol abuse is a serious issue here, and its introduced into our life at a young age, ok not everyone is like that but I see it more so here than alot of other countries. In the suburbs of Melbourne growing up, our social life revolved around pubs, this starts at approx 16, drinking to access and fighting.
I think you will find statistics regarding, violence and other societal issues will suggest alcohol is very much a destructive part of our society, and yes that's a guess on my behalf.





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[daletournier]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

So then, common sense is dead. Skippers are no longer the law on their own boats. And again "safety" is being legislated, as is "morality", & so called "good behavior".
Yet some of you guys are happy about this? Perhaps the playground equipment needs yet more padding so that everyone is "safe". Though thanks to it, the kids will be risk averse their whole lives, & have abysmal judgement due to same. Me, I'm thinking that that's a bad trend.

Well said. Does it get to appoint where we all must wear nerf suits?


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[StuM]

Originally Posted by Sandero

question:

I have placed a 1/4" thick plexi sheet bolted on stand off over all the 12v main wiring... busses, fuse blocks and switches etc. Most of the lugs have rubber shields (or whatever they are called). I removed the covers for the ANL fuse blocks. Would this approach be considered OK?

Yep, that should prevent you from accidentally shorting anything while under the influence of alcohol.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

So then, common sense is dead. Skippers are no longer the law on their own boats. And again "safety" is being legislated, as is "morality", & so called "good behavior".
Yet some of you guys are happy about this? Perhaps the playground equipment needs yet more padding so that everyone is "safe". Though thanks to it, the kids will be risk averse their whole lives, & have abysmal judgement due to same. Me, I'm thinking that that's a bad trend.

Skippers, especially unqualified recreational ones, have never been "the Law" on their own boats in territorial waters.

[Nooka]

I just don't get the drink thing. I just can't imagine what sort of state you must have to be in to be unable to do pretty much anything sailyboat related. OK if a severe storm is due or something. But why tf (for example) does the anchor operator have to be sober. Or the helmsman for that matter. It's not like in my displacement sailing boat I'm going to suddenly start sailing at 90kts. Surely in most circumstances drink is at worst a commercial concern for insurance companies - the state has no business there. I think I need a drink!

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by Nooka

I just don't get the drink thing. I just can't imagine what sort of state you must have to be in to be unable to do pretty much anything sailyboat related. OK if a severe storm is due or something. But why tf (for example) does the anchor operator have to be sober. Or the helmsman for that matter. It's not like in my displacement sailing boat I'm going to suddenly start sailing at 90kts. Surely in most circumstances drink is at worst a commercial concern for insurance companies - the state has no business there. I think I need a drink!

You just don't get it ??
So Nooka, you'd be happy after 5 drinks e.g., to take your prescious little 5 year old grand daughter ashore in the dink, in the dark, she can't swim ad nauseum...you'd do that? How many thousands of reasons do you need to NOT ever have more than a couple of drinks unless you are on a floating marina berth (with a set of steps) ?
Sorry Mate but you post saddens me. You may be the kindest, most generous, loveiest person on earth but your post saddens and frightens me and I suspect you have issues with all laws.
As you know, I've never walked in your shoes so I don't know what drives you but I suspect we are never too old to learn, and excessive grog, (some Australian CF members excluded) when on a boat is just plain wrong. Ever heard of Natalie Wood, Nooka? Famous lady, fell out of the dink drunk and died. She was trying to get away from Christoper Walken and her husband Robert Wagner who were arguing, also pissed. My guess is that Wagner, as skipper, hasn't slept well since losing Natalie for many reasons.
I hope you change Nooka.
Best wishes Brian ( who is genuinely sorry for the ramble.)
'

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Nooka

I just don't get the drink thing. I just can't imagine what sort of state you must have to be in to be unable to do pretty much anything sailyboat related. OK if a severe storm is due or something. But why tf (for example) does the anchor operator have to be sober. Or the helmsman for that matter. It's not like in my displacement sailing boat I'm going to suddenly start sailing at 90kts. Surely in most circumstances drink is at worst a commercial concern for insurance companies - the state has no business there. I think I need a drink!

The above ^^^ is fairly in line with my thinking. One of the big reasons being that in having observed hundreds people on boats, I've noticed that if you reduce someone's sleep to 4hrs a day vs. 8hrs, then their functionality level is often lower than if they'd had 3 cocktails. And frankly if you can't handle a boat in either state, or more realistically, both simultaneously, then you need a new hobby.

And before I get lots of hate mail about the above, ask yourself how well you do if you get 6hrs of sleep in 3 days, or even 12hrs. And if you'd then consider yourself impaired. Is that too a situation which others (sailors, & landsmen) should be allowed to regulate what you do, or don't do?

Particularly since non-sailors won't ever fully grasp what it's like to crew or skipper a vessel through conditions & situations which create such sleep deficits. Ones created by constantly excercising: Meaning doing such things as dealing with being on/in a constantly moving platform, often in strong weather conditions. To the point where you're gripping the bunk in your "sleep". And are continually moving sails, trimming, or changing them. Along with donning, & doffing multiple layers of heavy, awkward cloths, climbing up & down ladders, etc...

So should private then vessels be subject to the same sorts of rules as are many charter boats? Where everyone needs to be settled in somewhere "safe" by 1600. Meaning anchored, moored, or tied to a dock.

This creeping cultural Ninny'ism , er, I mean creeping Nanny'ism, sucks!

[brianlara 3]

Uncivilised, the level of nannyism (in Australia) hasn't changed in decades and it ever will.
The .05 rule for skippers is perfect, just as for mv drivers.
BUT, the "absolutely no grog on board" rule in Kentucky is bloody ridiculous imo.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

You just don't get it ??
So Nooka, you'd be happy after 5 drinks e.g., to take your prescious little 5 year old grand daughter ashore in the dink, in the dark, she can't swim ad nauseum...you'd do that?

No, he wouldn't be drinking a lot around the granddaughter because he understands the situation.

Anchor watch for teetotalers though evidently needs to be totally sober to handle that difficult job either that or the sober folks simply are not healthy.

They say a couple drinks a day is healthy.....

http://sciencenordic.com/three-beers...ep-doctor-away

[Scotty Kiwi]

It seems the boating alcohol rules in most jurisdictions are drafted to apply only to the person "operating" a vessel.

Is one "operating" the vessel when at anchor?

As an analogy, I have had friends, whether marginally or well over the limit, who sleep it off in their parked cars. The Police have awoken, searched and arrested some for DUI in the circumstance where they have the vehicle keys with them - presumably the test has been if they have the vehicle keys with them then they find it difficult to disprove a Police accusation that they have been "operating" the car.

On the other hand, there have been several instances when the guys, having been awoken, have informed Police that they do not have the keys, and then there has been no problem.

I would certainly want the option to have a few beers when safely at anchor, conditions etc allowing. (There is no alcohol limit for boating in NZ (the general maritime safety laws apply instead)), and I hate the thought of the Aussie joy Police preventing this, if ever I get there again.

So I wonder if the parking analogy could apply? Because vessels can be left at anchor entirely unattended, surely by extension there can be people on board an anchored vessel, unable to "operate" it because they don't have the physical devices required to do so? (That would then raise the question as to how to disable "operation" ... the engine start button is in a locked cupboard? and anchor winch "locked off"?).

And, of course, general marine safety law would still apply (as opposed to the Alcohol limit when operating a vessel law).

I know it sounds less safe or close to ridiculous, but that's the result of laws for the lowest denominator overtaking the ability and judgement of sensible people ... but ... does anyone get my drift?

[Big Macca]

And as for the Mooloolaba council worker warning daletournier not to trip on the sidewalk hose, Australia is the second-most litigious country in the world after the US (Canada is a close third). It's cheaper to have a council worker playing nanny than it is to be sued by someone who breaks their leg or even twists their ankle because they allegedly didn't see the safety cones and warnings.

As for the waterborne cops, in New South Wales they're generally friendly and leave yachts alone, but on the Queensland coast you get the impression that too many of them are joyriders looking for a reason to stay out of the office.

[Delancey]

I am imagining myself becalmed for three days under a tropic sun on a glassy sea with no wind in sight and a cooler full of icy cold beer untouched because of some irrevocable rule about no drinking underway. Hahaha.

Glad I don't feel so inherently unsafe on the water that I couldn't ever relax a little bit, if I did I would find another pastime.

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by thomm225

No, he wouldn't be drinking a lot around the granddaughter because he understands the situation.

Anchor watch for teetotalers though evidently needs to be totally sober to handle that difficult job either that or the sober folks simply are not healthy.

They say a couple drinks a day is healthy.....

Three beers a day keep the doctor away | ScienceNordic

I'd agree Thomm, I think that a couple of drinks a day is sooo healthy.

[brianlara 3]

Sure do get you drift Scotty. Agree.

[justwaiting]

The Queensland laws were a result of both the number of accidents that involved alcohol and the practise that had developed of using a boat as transport when the person was unfit to drive.

From the USA https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=23339

In 2010, the Coast Guard reported 4,604 boating accidents involving 672 fatalities and 3,153 injuries. These accidents were responsible for approximately $35.5 million dollars of property damage as a result of recreational boating accidents.

The fatality rate for boating accidents was 5.4 deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels in the same year. This figure represents a slight decrease from the previous year’s rate of 5.8 deaths per 100,000 registered vessels.

Boating accidents are extremely dangerous considering the fact that a large body of water is involved. In nearly three-fourths of all fatal boating accidents the victim drowned. Of those victims, 88% were not wearing a life jacket.

Boater inexperience and lack of instruction plays a heavy role in boating fatalities. In fact, only nine percent of deaths occurred on boats where the operator had received boating safety instruction. Furthermore, the size of the boat was a factor in the reported deaths. Eight out of every ten boaters who drown were using a vessel that was less than twenty one feet in length.

Unfortunately, boating accidents are very similar to car accidents due to the fact that operator carelessness or recklessness is usually the cause of most accidents and fatalities. The top five contributing factors to boating accidents include operator inattention, improper lookout, operator inexperience, excessive speed and alcohol.

Similar to the way that a drunk driver can get a DUI on the open roads, a boat operator can be guilty of drinking and driving a boat while under the influence. Unfortunately drinking is a significant problem in the boating community. Many people think it’s acceptable to drink alcohol while operating a large vessel—and when this happens a simple mistake can lead to serious injuries or death for anyone who gets in the way. It is not uncommon for passengers to fall off their own boats because the operator is speeding or driving in a reckless manner. Not to mention the occupants of other boats, paddle boats, jet skis and canoes.

Tragically, twenty-one children under the age of thirteen were killed in a boating accident in 2010. Of that figure, 42% of them drowned while they were wearing a life jacket. This sadly illustrates the fact that a young child can still die in a boating accident regardless if they were wearing a life jacket or not.

Of all boating-related deaths, alcohol use was determined to be the number one contributing factor. In effect, the majority of injuries and fatalities were the direct result of alcohol consumption.

A person "right" to enjoy themselves does not extend to situations where other peoples "right" to have protection of their lives and property from drunks.

Sharing a bottle of wine with friends over a meal at sun set is one of life's real pleasure and unlikely to cause you problems with the laws in Queensland.