Tunisia 8 hostages murdered.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Why not let Darwinism be the ultimate birth control. Starvation has a great way of limiting population growth. Perhaps we should also stop all forms of safety net programs as these seem to allow for overbreeding. Not to mention wasting resources on free health care on people which only adds to the population plague.

I am of course only joking to prove a point. It certainly is a slippery ethical slope when we devalue the worth of life in order to protect the environment from human overpopulation. But I do think that indiscriminate baby production by people who expect to be supported by "society" is not good as well. How you solve this is an issue that I don't have the answers for either intellectually or morally.

Best thing to do is to go boating and enjoy the open waters. On this I am sure we both can agree.

or maybe if " we" stopped interfering in the politics of other regions, that might help also

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Not so sure about that.. in the physical sense.. its basic guerilla warfare of attrition.. in the old days it would create fear only in the country.. pretty much like Boko Haram in Africa or some of the Central American rebels or the Mau Mau of the last century.
However today we have instant global coverage on every bombing in every country around the world in our faces breakfast lunch and dinner..
50yrs ago we sat in our respective countries and there would be the occasional article about and attack in which an EU/US person got killed.. and it'd be 'Tsk Tsk.. Poor Buga' and 5 minutes later its likely forgotten
Today its impossible unless you sit mid-Atlantic..
All this violence is in IN YOUR HOME.. how can you feel safe.. its psychological warfare and its working.. for the terrorists and the viewing figures..
It worked in the city centres abandoned to the baddies after dark.. 'No Dear.. lets not go into the cantre.. there were 3 muggings last w/end..' so you give it away..
That crap fact of life is to maintain International Law every now and then someone has to pay the Ferryman..
And there's grievances and band waggon nutters to spare out there.. and more every day.
And folk are anti birth control..

you show the wisdom of your years Phil

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

I don't think we have yet reached the stage of Islamic State attacks on boats in the Med. However a prudent boater would keep a close eye on goings on in the area and act with increased awareness and caution.

Yes IS has said their next stop is Europe. Even stating they will attack Italy and specifically the Vatican. At present they lack the maritime capability to traverse from their land strongholds on the North African region. But let us remember that Somalia pirates first started out with fast skiffs and then captured larger vessels which they then used as mother ships for their piracy. So things can change and change quickly.

I would still travel the Med. Not the Red Sea however.

Keeping a close eye on things is sensible. What is certain is the European enforcement services are most definitely on high alert in the Med with every boat movement being tracked. I would expect more precautionary boardings by authorities in these waters.

Lastly. As any good girl or boy sea scout would say, Be Prepared.

Firstly European maritime authorities are primarily on heightened alert in the Med , due to the massive humanitarian crises that is illegal attempts to cross the med to get into europe with people feeing disease, hunger, war , ISIL etc

The prospect of IS carry out anything other then random terrorist attacks in Europe is laughable, most of the attacks are actually home grown jihadists not imported .

Lets keep this in perspective, with the array of forces deployed now against ISIL, they are rapidly loosing ground, Tikrit is lost to them, Mosul is next, Assad has them cornered in Syria,

They are running out of time, too many enemies it seems want them gone, of course after ISIL is beaten , the area will remain a basket case for generations

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

indeed, perhaps the solution might be to dismantle the nonsense of the sykes -picot agreement that just divided up the ottoman empire to suit the then great powers, get the West out of Middle _Eastern politics and warmongering and I think the situation would arrive at a balance quickly enough

The more we intervene the more we prolong these conflicts

new states will arise from this thats sure

A ha, Sykes-Picot, that is an agreement that did not take into account the history of the area and now they are going to take the next step and try to correct that..There will be a "Kurdish State" when all is said and done and that will go a long way toward making things better imo..You hit the nail on the head introducing S-P..When they created Iraq they knew this day would come..

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

indeed, perhaps the solution might be to dismantle the nonsense of the sykes -picot agreement that just divided up the ottoman empire to suit the then great powers, get the West out of Middle _Eastern politics and warmongering and I think the situation would arrive at a balance quickly enough

Yeah, piece of cake...

All we have to do, is wean The Western Industrialized World off of oil, first...

:-)

[beecreek]

Please be wary. There are far more dangerous places in Texas to cruise. Houston/Galveston area has 2-300 murders per year on average.

[Kenomac]

Tunisia was never on our cruising list. Med waters except for those off the African coast remain very safe, safer than the US coast. No worries unless the situation gets out of control over the next year.

We intend to enjoy the recent decline of the euro this coming summer. 33% decline over the past couple of months against the U.S. dollar.

Ken

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Tunisia was never on our cruising list. Med waters except for those off the African coast remain very safe, safer than the US coast. No worries unless the situation gets out of control over the next year.

We intend to enjoy the recent decline of the euro this coming summer. 33% decline over the past couple of months against the U.S. dollar.

Ken

Ahhh.. tis wonderful to observe how perspectives change amongst cruisers over the years.. you.. MarkJ.. etc, etc...

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by beecreek

Please be wary. There are far more dangerous places in Texas to cruise. Houston/Galveston area has 2-300 murders per year on average.

I found your comment above interesting. My interest in your comment is because I intend to move to a coastal city (in the USA) this year.

Since the issue of this discussion has evolved from the murder of the hostages in Tunisia to the broader implications of "violence in the Mediterranean" and then to elsewhere (comparison to USA cities), I think it is helpful to consider that a city's reputation for violence or crime can be different from actual statistics (yes, I know the old sayings about "statistics").

If this topic of "most dangerous cities" interests you, I found the following page very interesting to read, because it ranks cities (USA only) based on looking at the incidences (numbers) of violent crimes (murder, rape, armed robbery aggravated assault) in relation to the size of the population. In other words, a large city with a large population may not be as "dangerous" as a smaller city that has more violent crimes per capita. To quote the page:
"dividing the number of violent crimes by the population of each city, divided by 1,000. This reveals the violent crime rate per 1,000 population, allowing us to compare and rank the cities. The results are eye-opening."

For example, in 2012, a person living in Camden New Jersey had a 1 in 39 chance of being a victim of violent crime.

Top 100 most dangerous places to live in the USA - NeighborhoodScout

As part of the discussion of this thread is about the threat to tourists visiting an area/country/city, this quote from the above report touches on that:

"It appears that just being a tourist locale is not enough to drive most tourist hot spots onto the list of most dangerous cities, but rather the character of the communities themselves seem to be more at root of the problem: unemployment, low educational attainment, and other social issues with which the communities struggle, regardless of their attraction to tourists."

[beecreek]

Please be wary. There are far more dangerous places in Texas to cruise. Houston/Galveston area has 2-300 murders per year on average.

[boatman61]

SteadyHand... its not so much a case of US cities as an example..
"Step back in amazement.. I'm not being anti-American"...
Its more the over reaction by folk most of whom will likely never cruise these waters... who'll needlessly scare folk away from the Med.. and once abandoned forever lost..
Forget individual cities anywhere.. look at statistics for folk who also travel for pleasure to other parts of the world and see how many have died from criminal assault as opposed to terrorist assault.. of the top of my head I can think of around 10 UK holiday makers in Sri Lanka, Thailand, India..
News..? YES..
Dya panic coz of it ..? NO
Why..??? They're not boat people.. and who'd wanna go holiday with ragheads..
Life is dangerous and no matter how much you guys try to fool yourselves you can Insure against everything.. you cannot..
The random factor anywhere will always bite your butt.. especially when politicians keep jabbing at it..

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by boatman61

To the best of my knowledge its working in China.. don't see rioting masses.. maybe a limit of one boy one girl per couple in their lifetime to replace the couple on the work force..
Gotta maintain the labour pool.. natural selection trims the herd.

I expect what you are saying "is" working in China refers to the Chinese one child policy. I would ask though at what price? You do realise that infanticide is a daily national occurrence. Particularly female babies are killed at birth across the country since particularly the poor rather have a male who can work and earn more money in the future for the family.

China in trying to solve it's population problem has turned the country into a people of murderer's.

China is not a good example on other human values as well. They are still in the business of rounding up political dissenters. They fill football stadiums regularly with the jailed not for playing football but for mass exterminations. The dead then are cut open to have their organs harvested to be used in transplants. You may say this is a logical approach to getting the best value for dollar out of prisoner's including political prisoners. This of course is revolting and unconscionable.

I remember when establishing a business in mainland China I was forced to hire even my office staff from the State employment agency. I learned after taking one of my hires out for drinks that the staff had to report once a week on my company and my views and business to a communist party cell meeting. Each place of employment has a party worker who once a week submits an intelligence report not only on the company and its inner workings and trade secrets but the political views of other Chinese workers as well as the views of the bosses.

Because I was deemed to be in a strategic industry all my phone calls were monitored and yes I had a tail every where I went day and night.

I remember walking past a grey looking apartment building. The kind that is a common sight in communist states. I saw an old man sitting on a chair at the front door. I watched from a short distance and sure enough each time a person came and went from the apartment building he pulled out his little notebook and wrote down what I was sure the time and name of who was coming and going. This still goes on today.

I could go on but I think the point is made. It is an insult to thinking moral people to hold up Chinese policy as anything but what it is. It is pure evil.

Like I said things that sound intelligent when implemented in practise bring about evil and social horrors.

You do realise that the population control evil scientists in the early 1900's working out of a lab in Cold Springs Harbour, Long Island developed the eugenics "science" that formed the basis of Hitler's mass exterminations. In fact it was the Chief eugenics and population control "scientist" from Cold Springs Harbour gave lectures to the top Nazis in Germany and was held in high regard and was a noted huge influence by and on Hitler himself.

So please be careful how you use your enthusiasm for population control because you may find yourself being one of those who is denied life saving medicine because of the insidious embracement of eugenics in our lives today.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

I expect what you are saying "is" working in China refers to the Chinese one child policy. I would ask though at what price? You do realise that infanticide is a daily national occurrence. Particularly female babies are killed at birth across the country since particularly the poor rather have a male who can work and earn more money in the future for the family.

China in trying to solve it's population problem has turned the country into a people of murderer's.

China is not a good example on other human values as well. They are still in the business of rounding up political dissenters. They fill football stadiums regularly with the jailed not for playing football but for mass exterminations. The dead then are cut open to have their organs harvested to be used in transplants. You may say this is a logical approach to getting the best value for dollar out of prisoner's including political prisoners. This of course is revolting and unconscionable.

I remember when establishing a business in mainland China I was forced to hire even my office staff from the State employment agency. I learned after taking one of my hires out for drinks that the staff had to report once a week on my company and my views and business to a communist party cell meeting. Each place of employment has a party worker who once a week submits an intelligence report not only on the company and its inner workings and trade secrets but the political views of other Chinese workers as well as the views of the bosses.

Because I was deemed to be in a strategic industry all my phone calls were monitored and yes I had a tail every where I went day and night.

I remember walking past a grey looking apartment building. The kind that is a common sight in communist states. I saw an old man sitting on a chair at the front door. I watched from a short distance and sure enough each time a person came and went from the apartment building he pulled out his little notebook and wrote down what I was sure the time and name of who was coming and going. This still goes on today.

I could go on but I think the point is made. It is an insult to thinking moral people to hold up Chinese policy as anything but what it is. It is pure evil.

Like I said things that sound intelligent when implemented in practise bring about evil and social horrors.

You do realise that the population control evil scientists in the early 1900's working out of a lab in Cold Springs Harbour, Long Island developed the eugenics "science" that formed the basis of Hitler's mass exterminations. In fact it was the Chief eugenics and population control "scientist" from Cold Springs Harbour gave lectures to the top Nazis in Germany and was held in high regard and was a noted huge influence by and on Hitler himself.

So please be careful how you use your enthusiasm for population control because you may find yourself being one of those who is denied life saving medicine because of the insidious embracement of eugenics in our lives today.

There's no need for science to enter into the equation in any sense what so ever.. other than to continue progress on improving the quality of life..
And euthinasia is totally unnessecary.. natural selection will thin the numbers pretty fast initially before steadying.. and space to breathe starts returning..
But.. with our advanced medicine and petitions from the suffers we already have a method for people to end their lives because they have a terminal illness and can endure no more over here in Europe.. and it will grow.
There's a proceedure they have clear to confirm its their wish and sound of mind.. if not body..
The EU general public is tired of being strung out till the bitter end for 'The Benefit of Sufferers of Tomorrow'.. because they are denied their Human Rights.. its not needed anymore.. technology's moved from the bedside and butchers slab to the tubes and slides.. the carcass is redundant..

A Two Strikes and your OUT policy.. 1 boy.. 1 girl.. SNIP
So make sure you don't mess about, if you do.. use the safest precautions because you've only 2 shots for the kids you WANT..
Mad Scientists always will exist and the Nutters who want to use their creations for 'evil'.. however I like to imagine (Dreamer that I am) that Education' as to the situation facing the Planet and the need to stay within our means..
We don't need to breed extensively for a labour pool for our essentials any more.. robotic's has taken millions of jobs of the market.. famines are rife and droughts on the increase..
There's the 'MAD WAY' or the intelligent civilised and informed way.. each child recorded and the birth parents ID'd by DNA...
Each sex gets two shots.. then Snip and Rabbit away.
A Charelton Heston World has no appeal as the future of my Grand children..
I got other crazy idea's as well...

[dpddj]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A Two Strikes and your OUT policy.. 1 boy.. 1 girl.. SNIP
So make sure you don't mess about, if you do.. use the safest precautions because you've only 2 shots for the kids you WANT..
I got other crazy idea's as well...

Not so crazy, boatie. How about if someone doesn't have the means to properly raise a child, both monetarily and emotionally, after the first, maybe second one that is popped out and onto welfare, SNIP SNIP as well. I have a niece who has popped out three - I'm not sure how many baby daddies. The mindset is 'the more kids I have the more welfare I get', and it doesn't cost her a thing.

A woman in the USA recently won a $188 million share of a lottery. She was living with her mother, had four kids by three baby daddies. Well, if she doesn't squander the money, maybe she'll have the sense to properly set her kids up.

Boy, this thread has sure drifted!

[Kokanee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Firstly European maritime authorities are primarily on heightened alert in the Med , due to the massive humanitarian crises that is illegal attempts to cross the med to get into europe with people feeing disease, hunger, war , ISIL etc

The prospect of IS carry out anything other then random terrorist attacks in Europe is laughable, most of the attacks are actually home grown jihadists not imported .

Lets keep this in perspective, with the array of forces deployed now against ISIL, they are rapidly loosing ground, Tikrit is lost to them, Mosul is next, Assad has them cornered in Syria,

They are running out of time, too many enemies it seems want them gone, of course after ISIL is beaten , the area will remain a basket case for generations

Your assessment is fairly accurate, GBN. The IS attacks are random, chaotic, and very fragmented since the Kurdish, Iranian, US and other forces started zeroing in on them a year ago.

IS were brought in by the Sunni tribal leaders to bring down the former Iraqi leadership. Fame & fortune was handed to them on a platter. They no longer serve a purpose and will dissolve into the landscape once Mosul and the nearby oilfields are taken away from them.

I doubt if there are strong links between the Tunisian attack and the core IS group, but the media sure makes a lot of connections. We all love to read about it.

Lets put in all into perspective. On the day of the murders in Tunisia, more people would have been killed by the common flu, or bee stings, or choking on their dinner. Not very interesting news though.