Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper

[med]

Originally Posted by Polux

Unless they go out of the Euro (and that would be really bad for them) they have no alternative as to pay. if they were a lonely case it could happen but then there is Italy, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, France and more countries with big bills to pay. If they were allowed not to pay the markets would lose confidence on all indebted countries and the consequences would be disastrous with interests going to impossible numbers.

With the US it would be the same. If the market lost confidence on the US as a trustworthy partner the interests for the money to pay the deficit would rise sharply and the economic consequences would be disastrous for the US economy.

Whether they pay back their loans or not is not connected to whether they leave the euro or not.

Cyprus (which still is uses Euros), basically defaulted.
I think it would be even more disastrous for Greece to leave the Euro.

They will default anyway. Sooner or later.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by med

Whether they pay back their loans or not is not connected to whether they leave the euro or not.

Cyprus (which still is uses Euros), basically defaulted.
I think it would be even more disastrous for Greece to leave the Euro.

They will default anyway. Sooner or later.

That has not to do with the default but with the attitude oft the party that has the bigger chance to win the elections in some days: We don't pay has been their campaign.

Merkel had said that if it was for real they would have to leave the Euro and many countries agreed. Leaving the Euro does not mean to leave EC. There are countries in the EC that don't have the Euro has currency.

Yes it will be worst for Greece but it seems they will be voting on a demagogue and believe in miracles.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Barra

.. with the swiss bailing on the euro peg the whole mess is beginning the inevitable unravelling.

Where this all ends is anyones guess but you can be sure there will be many more unintended consequences worldwide yet. We are in uncharted waters.

Great time to be swiss - take your francs and buy a boat in euros and come sailing in the med thats my tip!

Yes, great for Swiss and for the ones that have money in Swiss Banks in Swiss Francs (great for Banks) but in what regards economy I heard about a decrease in their growth of almost 1% and that is not good at all. I agree, uncharted waters

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Anyone watching the fall of the Euro vs Dollar lately - wow. Three years ago when we entered the Med I was paying a buck forty per euro, now its $1.16. Cruising is about 17% cheaper if your from the States.

Anyone know what the price of a liter of diesel is now in the Med?

Coming in don't forget to bunker in Gibraltar in July it was about 0,65€/Litre
and in sicily 1,8€/litre!!!

[goboatingnow]

The euro is falling in value by design, the ECB has announced massive QE. Everyone in the euro zone needs a cheaper euro. To help the economy recover. Even the Germans see what's happening due to an expensive currency

The swiss in no way wanted to allow the franc to float, it's a disaster for them, as they export 80% to the euro zone. But the had no real option as the ECB intends to drive the currency down.

Act now, when the Germans strangle QE, the euro will regain value.

Dave


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[HVYJimmy]

[QUOTE=Palarran;1726461]Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .

[goboatingnow]

[QUOTE=HVYJimmy;1727242]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .

Boats the last thing you need then




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[Polux]

[QUOTE=HVYJimmy;1727242]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .

I hope not. In fact Europe under the leadership of Germany and Merkel is being forced to be credible again in what regards accountability and counts. That started in Greece, Portugal and Ireland and with the exception of Greece everybody has been complying and solving their problems.

You are right it has to do with "as long as they can borrow" but what happened was that on all those countries reached a time where the market interests were so big and impossible to pay that was the same as saying: No more money.

The solution passed by a troika composed by IMF, ECB and EU that would lend the money with reasonably interests but only if those countries agreed to be subjected to a permanent control and acting according with directives given by their economists. If something failed.... no more money.

What happens in Greece is that now the biggest candidate to prime minister (on the next elections) says no more. We will finish with what has been called in all those countries as "austerity" and we will not pay the debt. Off course that means no more money and let them as only alternative to go out of the Euro because the market interests on money will go sky high. Going out of the Euro they will devalue 50% or so and then everything will be alright since the population will be paid with 50% of what is paid now.

The reason Euro has been devaluating regarding the dollar has to do with that, a necessary economic policy regarding coincidence of living status with the money to afford it.

Other countries will follow austerity, namely France and Italy and for the same reasons: When the market stop believing they can pay the interests will raise sharply and it will happen what had already happen on the countries with the weakest economy.

The truth is that almost all western countries including US have been living above what they can pay and the solution is only one: cut in everything. The problem is that no Politician will win any elections doing that and people will vote in the one that will say that austerity is not needed. They will come with the mirage of growth as if many countries of the 3rd world had not growths 4 times bigger.

[chris4911]

Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

[goboatingnow]

[QUOTE=Polux;1727371]

Originally Posted by HVYJimmy

I hope not. In fact Europe under the leadership of Germany and Merkel is being forced to be credible again in what regards accountability and counts. That started in Greece, Portugal and Ireland and with the exception of Greece everybody has been complying and solving their problems.

You are right it has to do with "as long as they can borrow" but what happened was that on all those countries reached a time where the market interests were so big and impossible to pay that was the same as saying: No more money.

The solution passed by a troika composed by IMF, ECB and EU that would lend the money with reasonably interests but only if those countries agreed to be subjected to a permanent control and acting according with directives given by their economists. If something failed.... no more money.

What happens in Greece is that now the biggest candidate to prime minister (on the next elections) says no more. We will finish with what has been called in all those countries as "austerity" and we will not pay the debt. Off course that means no more money and let them as only alternative to go out of the Euro because the market interests on money will go sky high. Going out of the Euro they will devalue 50% or so and then everything will be alright since the population will be paid with 50% of what is paid now.

The reason Euro has been devaluating regarding the dollar has to do with that, a necessary economic policy regarding coincidence of living status with the money to afford it.

Other countries will follow austerity, namely France and Italy and for the same reasons: When the market stop believing they can pay the interests will raise sharply and it will happen what had already happen on the countries with the weakest economy.

The truth is that almost all western countries including US have been living above what they can pay and the solution is only one: cut in everything. The problem is that no Politician will win any elections doing that and people will vote in the one that will say that austerity is not needed. They will come with the mirage of growth as if many countries of the 3rd world had not growths 4 times bigger.

Not to sidetrack into politics, but this a very euro -centric German style view of what's happening

The simplest fact is the ECB has announced a large QE , ( print money ) programme to desperately stimulate the Eurozone major countries like Germany and France now all in affective recession. . In all fiat currencies , when you print more of it , the value falls. As the US have found put.

It has nothing to do with Greece or even Ireland , Ireland actually reduced austerity significantly in this budget, changing the deficit reduction 3 billion to 2 billon, because the economy is growing and the tax revenues are above target.. For countries like Ireland , with significant US foreign direct investment A cheap ( er) euro is a manna from heaven.
The German " austerity " thinking, is over , the ECB has signalled that by the QE programme which was resisted for several years by the Germans, however since their own economy is now in trouble and deflation stalks the Eurozone , they are now backing QE.

The Greeks will not leave the euro, doing so would cause a massive sovereign default , a default that would severely hit the German banks that have big exposure to Greece.

Personally other then , affecting the euro price for a while , ( buy euro boats now ) I don't see QE having enough effect to solve the issues in the major Eurozone economies.

It will have a significant effect on US. Boat builders though.




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[yeloya]

Not only crusing but buying european boat also has become cheaper for those who earn in USD..

Euro can never be sustained against USD; how can you put a country like Greece and Germany on the same basket and hope that it could work..The cleaver britons have seen that long ago and stayed away..

As far as Greece go, whether they stay in eurozone or not, the situation is hopeless. For years, they have spent the money they never earned and they piled up a debth of 260 Bio € (almost two times their GNP) They don't have any industrial output, depend heavyly on service business and public sector is huge in any standard. (Haven't you notice how many coast guard, custom officers they have even on small islands ? )
On top, they don't want to work harder for less , they reject every austerity measures, they don't want to pay taxes and the corruption is over the head . As a matter of fact, accumulated foreign investment (FDI) over the last 3 years are only at 5-6 Bio USD vs. for example 46 Bio for Turkey or 72 Bio for Chile.
Greece will not default either, how euopean governments are going to explain to their tax payers that their money have been thrown down the drain ?? The decision to take Greece in CE was a mistake for both side. I believe Greece could have been in much better shape had they stayed out of this CE illusion.

Anyway, Greece is still one of the best countries to cruise and hope that it will stay this way without having to introduce stupid taxes and regulations for foreign cruisers.

Cheers

Yeloya

[arsenelupiga]

EU problems are many but top one in my view is racism or religionism.

dont see how they can avoid ethnic cleansing in not too distant future.

probably will spread around as well.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by chris4911

Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

What in the world are you talking????

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Not only crusing but buying european boat also has become cheaper for those who earn in USD..

Euro can never be sustained against USD; how can you put a country like Greece and Germany on the same basket and hope that it could work..The cleaver britons have seen that long ago and stayed away..

The Euro was being sustained in value against the USD, because of the affect of German policies preventing quantitative easing. . Fiat currencies have no " instrinic" value against each other. The gold standard is gone a long time. , a falling euro is good for the Eurozone, and actually bad for the US.

Now that " austerity " is being dumped and the ECB is trying to stimulate business and spending, we might see some life., Ireland ( in the Eurozone ) and the UK out of the Eurozone , are both growing, even though the UK has a worrying downwards trend and has had the bad effects of QE that the Bank of England undertook.

The issues of the Eurozone have nothing to do with Greece. , the EU as a whole vies with the US as the worlds largess economic area, Greece is a pimple on that backside

The primary issues are that political unity is needed for monetary union, hence the euro project will now act to force Eurozone countries together even closer , implementing shared risk mechanisms, like Eurobonds, common budgetary policy , further tax harmonisation, and the fundamental idea of fiscal transfers.

Ps EU taxpayers aren't been asked to burn money , they ( at most ) may burn the interest and that only happens on commercial bonds. The principle will be rolled over for ever. ( and inflated away over time ). Most ordinary people don't understand money supply and think somehow money can't be created out of thin air ( actually it is every days! )

Remember it's paper money , paper is cheap !! ( once you don't overdo things )

Dave




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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

EU problems are many but top one in my view is racism or religionism.



dont see how they can avoid ethnic cleansing in not too distant future.



probably will spread around as well.

There is no doubt that we will see more immigration control. That's already happening , but I see no black lash. The vast majority of the people I suspect you mean , are EU citizens.

Also I think your comments are excessive , base purely on recent events etc

Let's leave this type of discussion off this forum


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