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Old 01-01-2010, 18:56   #121
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It's your responsibility

It is your responsibility to comply with the laws of the country you are visiting. It is also your responsibility to be aware of the laws of the coutry you are visiting. It is the responsibility of the police to enforce those laws. You screwed up. You are going to have to deal with it. It is a continuing saga with those who do not know, or just ignore laws of other countries, then bitch and whine when they get caught.
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Old 02-01-2010, 16:26   #122
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God, I thought this thread was dead, but no rubbish keeps surfacing

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If you register officially a boat at European Authorities, to get a flag certificate, one has to proof that VAT is paid.

And I do not consider it as unfair, if a non European boat should not pay VAT if staying for more than 180 days in European waters.

By the way: An Insurance is obligatory all over Europe and is controlled everywhere, in ports, marinas, by police, in channels, without insurance certificate no cruising permit wherever.

Joefloki Almost every statement is wrong,

Some coutries inquire about VATstatus some do not. UK registry does not care about VAT status ( and their are many reasons why a EU boat could be non-VAT). One countries registry does not care about VAT status in another EU country

NON EU boats do not have to pay VAT if they stay in EU waters more then 180 days, The boats is allowed to remain for 18 months extenable to 24 months and further extendible indefinitely under some indivual country laws. You are mixing up personal tax law and temporary importation, ( and you an EU citizen!!).

Insurance is only ibligatory in SOME EU countries and then its only third party liability , which anyone can get for peanuts. UK and ireland for example DO not require insurance. HOwever most marinas in the MED require insurance, but that doesnt make it a LEGAL requirement

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i am spanish, i live in spain, but i dont understand because if you are belgian (belgian consulat) and the boat is with belgian flag no limits to stay in spain, different is if you dont are citizens of countries signed schengen or the boat are different flag. In spain and in the eu, and all countries around the world are regulations for stay more than 6 months in a year. There are toooooo many persons living in a boat in spain and any problem but they are into the law, it is simply.
regards
jojecas, you may be spainish, but you dont understand the matriculation tax on boats and its difference to personal tax residency.

If you LIVE on your boat in a spainish marina, for more then 180 days, you become a spanish tax resident ( end of story). ( this is teh same in alomost any EU country). Therefore irrespective of your belgian flag or otherwise you have to pay the matrix tax. However its something the spainish port authorities have been slow to do. But its the law and people do get caught.

You are right a belgain flagged vessel can stay in spain for as long as its likes, BUT THE OWNER CANT without becoming a tax resident.
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:11   #123
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"...There are toooooo many persons living in a boat in spain and any problem but they are into the law, it is simply..."

Do not worry, I am leaving soon. Good luck with your economy (which is based on visitors). I believe Spain has about 12% non-Spanish residents/immigrants. Are all of them "tooooo many", or only the sailors?

I am very sorry to state bluntly that the Spanish requirements (as per goboatingnow) are STUPID and a boat that is OK with registration/TAX issues in any EU country should be free to stay in ANY EU state indefinitely, no matter what the tax residence of the owner is, as long as they are EU too.

Otherwise why have the EU? To tax us again and again and again?

So much for freedom to move and reside in the EU.

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Old 02-01-2010, 18:23   #124
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"....

Otherwise why have the EU? To tax us again and again and again?

b.
Errrrrrrr. Maybe I am stupid or something, but I can't think of any other valid reason the EU exists.
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:27   #125
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I am very sorry to state bluntly that the Spanish requirements (as per goboatingnow) are STUPID and a boat that is OK with registration/TAX issues in any EU country should be free to stay in ANY EU state indefinitely, no matter what the tax residence of the owner is, as long as they are EU too.

Otherwise why have the EU? To tax us again and again and again?

So much for freedom to move and reside in the EU.
Ignoring the bigger political questions, you have to remember that the EU ( at this stage of its evolution) does not have harmonised tax systems. This is being discussed, but individual countries are loath to allow this as it can cause huge upsets to their political systems if tax systems change radically.

SO for now!, you have to abide by each countries tax laws, this is the same in every country in the world.

The EU does allow its "citizens" to freely move,live and work in all the member states, however you must abide by thoses countries laws and that includes their tax laws. In spain, after 180 days residence you "can" become a tax resident of that country and hence you pay taxes on you possesions and income that derives from spain, this includes a boat tax.

End of story. Sure leave spain, the alternative is that you want the right to be a spainish tax dodger.!!

PS. just to be clear Again, An EU boat can stay forever in spain, without attracting taxes, its the person that cant.
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:30   #126
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You are 100% right. And I fear to imagine what will happen once the taxes get 'harmonized'.

Well, whatever, I have a sailing boat and I will not hesitate to use it ;-)

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Old 02-01-2010, 18:30   #127
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
"...There are toooooo many persons living in a boat in spain and any problem but they are into the law, it is simply..."

Do not worry, I am leaving soon. Good luck with your economy (which is based on visitors). I believe Spain has about 12% non-Spanish residents/immigrants. Are all of them "tooooo many", or only the sailors?

I am very sorry to state bluntly that the Spanish requirements (as per goboatingnow) are STUPID and a boat that is OK with registration/TAX issues in any EU country should be free to stay in ANY EU state indefinitely, no matter what the tax residence of the owner is, as long as they are EU too.

Otherwise why have the EU? To tax us again and again and again?

So much for freedom to move and reside in the EU.

b.
What?? sorry to say this mate, but , you dont know what you talking about!! the economy in Spain is not based in visitors, try to check better your info,the economy in Spain in the last 5 or 6 years are based in the construction, houses, roads, etc.... and this days now are far far away....
Cheers...
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:39   #128
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So much for freedom to move and reside in the EU.
You do - but that ain't the same as "turn up to live in someone else's country and pay f#ck all for doing so".

For the genuine visitor to an EU country taxes are rarely an issue - arguably up to 6 months is actually very generous for a "visit"...........
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:48   #129
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Maybe I am stupid or something, but I can't think of any other valid reason the EU exists.
Moonlightshadow, other then takin a piece of each countrys VAT take, The "EU" doesnt take your taxes at all. Thats what your own country is good at doing. The EU has many faults, at this stage tax isnt one of them
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:51   #130
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You are 100% right. And I fear to imagine what will happen once the taxes get 'harmonized'.

Well, whatever, I have a sailing boat and I will not hesitate to use it ;-)

b.
and unfortunately, countries all around the globe are getter better at making youpay for your boating pleasure,

so welcome to the "endless atlantic" cruise. feel better now
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Old 02-01-2010, 18:58   #131
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Moonlightshadow, other then takin a piece of each countrys VAT take, The "EU" doesnt take your taxes at all. Thats what your own country is good at doing. The EU has many faults, at this stage tax isnt one of them
oh. So where does all the money they spend come from then? Albania?
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Old 02-01-2010, 19:19   #132
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What?? sorry to say this mate, but , you dont know what you talking about!! the economy in Spain is not based in visitors...
"... (wiki)... during the last four decades the Spanish tourism industry has grown to become the second biggest in the world ..."

You are correct. Before the fall of the construction bubble, it was 12% GDP. This is why NOW they are in such a deep, well, trench ;-)

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Old 02-01-2010, 19:19   #133
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oh. So where does all the money they spend come from then? Albania?
The EU is funded by taking a percentage of VAT receipts from all member states. All that shopping adds up to a lot of money.
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Old 02-01-2010, 19:26   #134
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LOL

It looks like we all hate the situation (and have learned to avoid its pitfalls). How come we elected them lawmakers?

Free to live and taxed to death, or something like that ;-)

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Old 02-01-2010, 21:49   #135
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I didn't think we had elected them. But I suppose that's partially my fault. The turnout from our town for the Euro elections was lower than for sunni muslims in Bagdad. The popular opinion was that no one cared. Whomever we elected was going to stick their nose deeply into the trough, so we just didn't bother.
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