Canadian COVID-19 News

[N Coast Murray]

Okay...I have a hair-brained conspiracy theory of my own.

Has anyone else noticed some of the recent wave of Covid/vaccine naysayers seem to have signed up in October of 2021 and join this discussion with less than 10 posts to their credit?

Hmmm...

Makes a guy wonder...

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I believe what the data shows is that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated are getting, and spreading omicron. Nobody (except for you, apparently) is tracing to the level necessary to know who gave it to whom.

At a certain point (and we're way past that) it becomes silly to scapegoat people.

Let's get back to examining data:


These are the current graphs for Ontario https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data
They show the vaccinated getting covid at a greater rate.
They show that the vaccinated case numbers are skyrocketed above the unvaxxed case numbers. (These case numbers should put the problem of unvaxxed clogging resources into perspective)

And as I mentioned before, data integrity.
Data Ontario lists these disclaimers:

Hospitalizations

This is a new data collection and the data quality will continue to improve as hospitals continue to submit data.
In order to understand the vaccination status of patients currently hospitalized, a new data collection process was developed and this may cause discrepancies between other hospitalization numbers being collected using a different data collection process.
Data on patients in ICU are being collected from two different data sources with different extraction times and public reporting cycles. The existing data source (Critical Care Information System, CCIS) does not have vaccination status.
Historical data for hospitalizations by region may change over time as hospitals update previously entered data.
Due to incomplete weekend and holiday reporting, vaccination status data for hospital and ICU admissions is not updated on Sundays, Mondays and the day after holidays
Unvaccinated is defined as not having any dose, or between 0-13 days after administration of the first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.
Partially vaccinated is defined as 14 days or more after the first dose of a 2-dose series COVID-19 vaccine, or between 0-13 days after administration of the second dose
Fully vaccinated is defined as 14 days or more after receipt of the second dose of a 2-dose series COVID-19 vaccine
Cases

The cases by vaccination status may not match the daily COVID-19 case count because records with a missing or invalid health card number cannot be linked.
Due to technical difficulties, the case rates by vaccination status and age group file is not currently available.https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covi...ata-in-ontario

From the british Medical Journal:

Data should be fully and immediately available for public scrutiny....
Pfizer’s pivotal covid vaccine trial was funded by the company and designed, run, analysed, and authored by Pfizer employees. The company and the contract research organisations that carried out the trial hold all the data.17 And Pfizer has indicated that it will not begin entertaining requests for trial data until May 2025......
The lack of access to data is consistent across vaccine manufacturers.16 Moderna says data “may be available … with publication of the final study results in 2022.”18 Datasets will be available “upon request and subject to review once the trial is complete,” which has an estimated primary completion date of 27 October 2022......
As of 31 December 2021, AstraZeneca may be ready to entertain requests for data from several of its large phase III trials.19 But actually obtaining data could be slow going. As its website explains, “timelines vary per request and can take up to a year upon full submission of the request.....
Among regulators, the US Food and Drug Administration is believed to receive the most raw data but does not proactively release them. After a freedom of information request to the agency for Pfizer’s vaccine data, the FDA offered to release 500 pages a month, a process that would take decades to complete, arguing in court that publicly releasing data was slow owing to the need to first redact sensitive information.23 This month, however, a judge rejected the FDA’s offer and ordered the data be released at a rate of 55 000 pages a month...https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102

Now deleted data out of Alberta shows (purportedly) they are lumping the partially vaccinated hospitalizations and deaths into the unvaxxed category:

Alberta just inadvertently confessed to fiddling the COVID vaccination stats.
More than half the newly vaccinated deaths were dumped in the unvaccinated.https://metatron.substack.com/p/albe...ntly-confessed

https://web.archive.org/web/20220107...ccine-outcomes

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Okay...I have a hair-brained conspiracy theory of my own.

Has anyone else noticed some of the recent wave of Covid/vaccine naysayers seem to have signed up in October of 2021 and join this discussion with less than 10 posts to their credit?

Hmmm...

Makes a guy wonder...

I've been saying this for a while. Most of these antis (which also hang out in other threads like ones on climate change) seem to emerge as new users, or more interestingly, users with very low post numbers.

I really think as other social media sites clamp down on all the mis/disinformation, that these folks are coming to places like CF which has little ability to officially fact check.

[danstanford]

Thumbs, I am all for the integrity of the data, but even more interested in how the data is presented. Drawing a conclusion with respect to Covid in this dynamic environment is very tough.

If you are interested in really drawing an accurate conclusion from this data, could you express the graphs Covid Cases by Vaccination Status in a more meaningful way? To be informative, each Vaccination Status would have to be expressed as cases per person of that status. Quite likely you would need to use "cases per 1,000 unvaccinated" and "cases per 1,000 partially vaccinated" and "cases per 1,000 fully vaccinated".

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

(These case numbers should put the problem of unvaxxed clogging resources into perspective)...

No, it doesn't change anything when it comes to clogging up hospitals.

The overwhelming majority (over 77% IIRC) of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated despite being only 10% of Canada's population.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Okay...I have a hair-brained conspiracy theory of my own.

Has anyone else noticed some of the recent wave of Covid/vaccine naysayers seem to have signed up in October of 2021 and join this discussion with less than 10 posts to their credit?

Hmmm...

Makes a guy wonder...

You joined 2 months earlier (August 2021), and joined this discussion on your second post. It really does make a guy wonder. Hmmmm.
And Mike, you already made that statement. ("I really think as other social media sites clamp down on all the mis/disinformation, that these folks are coming to places like CF which has little ability to officially fact check."), pretty much verbatim. An official government fact check would be a good way to control a narrative. Maybe ban some books while they are at it.
Looks like I have been here longer than either of you, just to be sure though; You don't mean me, right?

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

...just to be sure though; You don't mean me, right?

Nope

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Thumbs, I am all for the integrity of the data, but even more interested in how the data is presented. Drawing a conclusion with respect to Covid in this dynamic environment is very tough.

If you are interested in really drawing an accurate conclusion from this data, could you express the graphs Covid Cases by Vaccination Status in a more meaningful way? To be informative, each Vaccination Status would have to be expressed as cases per person of that status. Quite likely you would need to use "cases per 1,000 unvaccinated" and "cases per 1,000 partially vaccinated" and "cases per 1,000 fully vaccinated".

I already have. Here it is again, Rate per 100,000. Higher among the vaccinated:

To be clear, I am questioning this data. But in this case it admits a higher case rate among the vaccinated.

My question from before (how can they collect case rates among the unvaxxed?) still remains unanswered. If I don't have to divulge my vax status when getting tested, if hospital patient records are confidential, if Critical Care Information System, does not have vaccination status, How can I be assured that the data is not made up, or derived from a simulation?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

No, it doesn't change anything when it comes to clogging up hospitals.

The overwhelming majority (over 77% IIRC) of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated despite being only 10% of Canada's population.

I provided sources for my statements. So should you

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I provided sources for my statements. So should you

It was provided in an earlier post, hence the "IIRC".

I'm going boating for the day in a few minutes, so will chime in later.

[sv_pelagia]

Here are today's Ontario data from the Ontario Covid-19 Science Table https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/onta...cinationstatus



The Science Table's presentation of data is usually better than the Ontario Dashboard.

Text below graphs gives details of data in graphs.

[TrentePieds]

Thumbs Up said: "You joined 2 months earlier (August 2021), and joined this discussion on your second post. It really does make a guy wonder. Hmmmm."

There is a very significant difference, though: NCM resides in BC and is therefore eligible for services under the British Columbia Medical Plan, a plan funded by taxes paid by Canadians. You are not eligible for those services.

NCM is (I would assume) enfranchised both in provincial and federal elections and thereby able to influence, via his provincial vote, HOW funds dedicated to social services are to be spent and, via his federal vote, HOW MUCH of the General Revenues is to be allocated to social services.

Seniority on CF is entirely irrelevant. Nationality is not.

Salut,

TrentePieds

[Scorpius]

My goodness. Sleep in one morning (I was up VERY late last night) and look at all you miss!

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Thumbs Up said: "You joined 2 months earlier (August 2021), and joined this discussion on your second post. It really does make a guy wonder. Hmmmm."

There is a very significant difference, though: NCM resides in BC and is therefore eligible for services under the British Columbia Medical Plan, a plan funded by taxes paid by Canadians. You are not eligible for those services.

NCM is (I would assume) enfranchised both in provincial and federal elections and thereby able to influence, via his provincial vote, HOW funds dedicated to social services are to be spent and, via his federal vote, HOW MUCH of the General Revenues is to be allocated to social services.

Seniority on CF is entirely irrelevant. Nationality is not.

Salut,

TrentePieds

I have clearly explained why I post covid info here on the Canadian covid thread (MO, svP, and LE crashed the other threads by posting insults).

There are several other non Canadian posters on this thread.

I have offered to quit posting about covid entirely (as long as MO does the same)

We happen to be discussing the Canadian Data. Furthermore (because we don't discuss politics here) the rest is irrelevant.

[Mike OReilly]

Case data is pretty much meaningless since Omicron overwhelmed our testing capacity. This was pointed out pages ago. The only reliable data right now comes from hospitalizations, ICU numbers, and analysis of waste water. Positivity rates are indicative, but again, since testing is no longer a reliable metric, this too is questionable.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Here is the current Ontario hospitalization and ICU breakdown.

sv_pelagia just posted the current data presentation from the Ontario Science Table. All of this clearly and explicitly shows that vaccination is far superior than going unvaccinated -- assuming your intent is to stay healthy.