Canadian COVID-19 News

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Part of my disillusionment and losing my fear was gained through discussions with someone married to a hospital administrator. He helped me appreciate the fact that hospitals in the US make money treating sick people and that they make more money by not being over-staffed.

This became real obvious when the vaxx mandates came into effect for health care workers and they started firing people formerly know as “heroes” for not getting the jab.

I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

Delancey, how does "firing people...for not getting the jab" make it obvious to you that the hospitals make money by treating sick people and not being over staffed?

Are you suggesting that they used "not getting the job" as a pretense to reduce staff?

Are you suggesting that reducing staff levels while cases were going up was a conscious business plan?

Yes, private hospitals want to make money, but you have to be grossly cynical to think that they would put profits ahead of staffing sufficiently to treat people in critical need.

I rather think that hospital administrations felt that unvaccinated staff would endanger patients and other staff.

As for these allegedly being the views of a hospital administrator (per the spouse) what we see in this forum and real life, there are people of all sorts of education and intelligence who have strange, cynical, and conspiratorial views. And that makes me sad because they obstruct and obfuscate otherwise efforts to solve problems such as public health problems.

And what I find interesting is that the person who has cynical views about Covid is also likely to have weird views about climate, politics, the ethics and sincerity and of corporate officers, elected and appointed government officials and professional journalists. It must be discouraging to think that almost everyone in the world is evil and conspiring against you. I have pretty much the opposite view.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

As you mentioned New York....

New York City statistics: CASE RATE
Attachment 251896

Shows clearly that UNvaccinated have much higher rate of infection, even during Omicron. Similarly, UNvaccinated have much higher rates for hospitalization or death.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/...ata.page#daily

Lots of these graphs are published to help coerce the vax. Where do they get the data for the unvaxxed? I've never been asked to disclose my vaccination status when getting tested. Hospitals (at least in the US) don't disclose confidential patient records so where does the data come from? There are many statistical fallacies shown by graphs. Is the recent spike due to the unboostered now being considered unvaxxed (they don't say). Enough of these and similar graphs (depicting the unvaxxed) are published to make it a legit question. Inquiring (scientific) minds want to know. They never list a legit data source for unvaxxed. I have seen NY times listed as a source. No one is accounting for this made up data. I have looked. It is missing. How (pray tell) could they even begin to know case counts for unvaxxed? I will bet it is based on a simulation. When every major publication and public agency is hell bent on coercing the vax (as evidenced by a complete lack of objective reporting) , how are you going to convince someone like me (who likes to verify data sources). The figures must come from somewhere. Sorry I have no faith in the figures. I prefer proof. Common sense tells me it is lacking simply because I know they don't require vax status when being tested. I am not asking for your usual barrage of insults, and it doesn't need to be specifically for this NY chart you have posted. If any of you can show legit data sources for unvaxxed case counts (or even hospitalization and death counts), please post it. (Keeping in mind that I don't currently trust the CDC and most other public health agencies who all shamelessly promote the vax while actively discouraging the early in home treatments proven to be so effective). Show me how this data is collected. If the data is legit, the source would be transparent.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

By that, I meant what other precautions were they taking, like masks, distancing, etc? I assume they were back to in-class teaching. End of term partying, maybe?

Anyway, we all agree that vaccination does not prevent all catching or spreading of Omicron.

No we don't. I think it reduces the spread. Vaccination reduces the period of illness and therefore the length of time when one is contagious.

I think the evidence is out on whether or not having a strong immune response, such as from being vaccinated, also reduces the virus load and the amount an ill person spews to those around them.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Makes sense to me

Except that the most current research is NOT finding a correlation between obesity and severe Covid-19 outcomes.

This was why I referenced those articles. The obesity connection has been claimed from the get-go, and there were some early papers indicating there was a relationship. But if you read the more current papers I referenced, they are either not finding sufficient data to support this theory, or they conclude it does not correlate in severe outcomes.

[sv_pelagia]

RE NYC data: much info in the linked notes.

For example: Vaccinated means people age 5 and over who are fully vaccinated at the time of case diagnosis: 14 days after the administration of the 2nd dose in a 2-dose series, or after the administration of a single-dose vaccine.

https://github.com/nychealth/coronav...reakthroughcsv

Not much use though for the few that believe every public health agency around the world outputs fake data. Or that most researchers produce fake data....

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Except that the most current research is NOT finding a correlation between obesity and severe Covid-19 outcomes.

This was why I referenced those articles. The obesity connection has been claimed from the get-go, and there were some early papers indicating there was a relationship. But if you read the more current papers I referenced, they are either not finding sufficient data to support this theory, or they conclude it does not correlate in severe outcomes.

Might be a chicken/egg thing. Obesity causes illnesses which Covid exploits...obesity isn't the cause, but helps set the stage.

Complex stuff...could be more about poor diet, in that lower income essential workers who live in areas without supermarkets often have to use public transit to get to work. They were hit hard in the first wave.

[sv_pelagia]

Here in British Columbia,

health authorities DO have the vaccination status of every British Columbian vaccinated in BC.

(They also have the status of British Columbians who have been vaccinated out of Province who have provided their vaccination records to the province... for the the vaccine mandates.)

So UNvaccinated vs vaccinated statistics, such as for hospitalization are accurate:

Attachment 251902

I'm pretty sure the above is much the same across Canada.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

RE NYC data: much info in the linked notes.

For example: Vaccinated means people age 5 and over who are fully vaccinated at the time of case diagnosis: 14 days after the administration of the 2nd dose in a 2-dose series, or after the administration of a single-dose vaccine.

https://github.com/nychealth/coronav...reakthroughcsv

Not much use though for the few that believe every public health agency around the world outputs fake data. Or that most researchers produce fake data....

Not for nothing, New York State health commission resigned after getting caught fudging numbers, and NYC health commissioner resigned because the mayor wasn't on the same page. So seems we cannot trust some experts, and therein lies the concern some express. Perhaps it's better in Canada, perhaps Ontario should more closely examine neighbor New York's "data".

On a lighter note (depending on one's view), once released from COVID quarantine I got a letter of congratulations from the county health director stating that I'm no longer under quarantine and neither are Patrick and Susan! I called her (very nice lady, well meaning) to tell her I have no idea who Patrick and Susan are...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

...If any of you can show legit data sources for unvaxxed case counts (or even hospitalization and death counts), please post it. (Keeping in mind that I don't currently trust the CDC and most other public health agencies who all shamelessly promote the vax while actively discouraging the early in home treatments proven to be so effective)...

You have a point that people who are simply tested and show positive results could be counted as "cases" while their vaccination status is not known. I think that it is an assumption that these people are included in the "covid cases among unvaccinated" counts.

However I would be surprised if people who subsequently seek medical treatment or hospitalization were not asked about their vaccination status.

As to your assertion that CDC and other public health agencies are shamelessly promoting vaccination instead of home treatments proven to work, I have a lot more confidence and trust in the health professionals in those agencies than you do and I think they don't believe that the "proven" home remedies actually work to prevent serious covid illness or they would have been promoting them as well and in fact THEY ARE!

Both WHO and CDC are recommending treatment with Merck’s molnupiravir,
Pfizer's paxlovid (combined with ritonavir), and baricitinib, and sotrovimab.

A statement from CDC, for example, reads: "Despite some reduction in neutralization concentrations, sotrovimabexternal icon remains effective against all variants of concern, including Omicron".

Note, they are not recommending treatment with horse deworming medicines, nor are they claiming that these drugs prevent people from becoming ill.

I've read this in MSM reports. Somehow the reporters managed to avoid the supposed provax bias of the editors and are getting the story out.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Not for nothing, New York State health commission resigned after getting caught fudging numbers, and NYC health commissioner resigned because the mayor wasn't on the same page. So seems we cannot trust some experts, and therein lies the concern some express. Perhaps it's better in Canada, perhaps Ontario should more closely examine neighbor New York's "data".



On a lighter note (depending on one's view), once released from COVID quarantine I got a letter of congratulations from the county health director stating that I'm no longer under quarantine and neither are Patrick and Susan! I called her (very nice lady, well meaning) to tell her I have no idea who Patrick and Susan are...

The data I presented are New York CITY, not state.

Glad to hear that you AND Patrick and Susan are out of quarantine. Did you swipe right or left? [emoji848]

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Might be a chicken/egg thing. Obesity causes illnesses which Covid exploits...obesity isn't the cause, but helps set the stage.

Complex stuff...could be more about poor diet, in that lower income essential workers who live in areas without supermarkets often have to use public transit to get to work. They were hit hard in the first wave.

Yes, it's definitely complex. Lower socio-economic folks generally have poorer health status, and for a lot of the reasons you mention. But with regard to comorbidities, it's import to keep in mind is that almost every patient with severe illness will exhibit them.

But the obesity theory has often been trumpeted by Covid-19 skeptics as a means to dismiss the risk of the disease. And on the surface, it makes sense. But that's why the current research is interesting. It doesn't find a correlation, at least not to severe outcomes. That's not to say there isn't one. But the simple view is not bearing up to scrutiny.

The single largest factor related to serious outcome remains age. But exactly why this is also remains somewhat mysterious.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Might be a chicken/egg thing. Obesity causes illnesses which Covid exploits...obesity isn't the cause, but helps set the stage.

Yes, very much so. The burden of a serious COVID infection often pushes people with fragile health over the edge.

This is one of the problems confounding the classification of patients in the hospital. There are patients who clearly caught COVID and that's what they're admitted to hospital for, and then there are people admitted for other reasons (dizziness, heart attack, shortness of breath, organ failure, etc) and once admitted it's determined that they have COVID.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Not for nothing, New York State health commission resigned after getting caught fudging numbers, and NYC health commissioner resigned because the mayor wasn't on the same page. So seems we cannot trust some experts, and therein lies the concern some express. Perhaps it's better in Canada, perhaps Ontario should more closely examine neighbor New York's "data".

On a lighter note (depending on one's view), once released from COVID quarantine I got a letter of congratulations from the county health director stating that I'm no longer under quarantine and neither are Patrick and Susan! I called her (very nice lady, well meaning) to tell her I have no idea who Patrick and Susan are...

I swore I wouldn't write anything on this thread today as I have other things to do (like appealing our property assessment and rewriting my will) but I really wish people would not bring the American experience and political culture into this thread - which is supposed to be focused on the Canadian situation. Surveys have shown that Canadians have a FAR higher regard for their politicians (although, in absolute terms, it's not very high) and government officials (where it is quite high) than do Americans. A case in point here in BC: Dr. (Auntie) Bonnie Henry.

We have enough problems with Alberta (Texas North) without bringing New York into the discussion. I know a great many people don't realize it but we are a VERY different country - especially in our political and governance systems.

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...But the obesity theory has often been trumpeted by Covid-19 skeptics as a means to dismiss the risk of the disease...

Well, considering how many people believe the Earth to be flat, it's not surprising some people would think Covid is nothing to worry about.

Hard to fight the numbers though:

Worldwide deaths per year to Influenza........650,000 (highest estimate I found)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/

Worldwide deaths to Covid have obviously fluctuated, but seem to have stabilized at around 7,000 per day which is 2,555,000 deaths per year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yup, no problem there

[Thumbs Up]

It is sad that people have to resort to horse dewormer formulations when the pharmaceutical version for humans is available over the counter in many places worldwide. The WHO distributed it in their Covid kits in Uttar Pradesh. The nearby regions who didn't get it statistics speak for themselves. 80% of our deaths would have been prevented if these early ambulatory treatment protocols had been promoted (instead of discouraged and outlawed). Instead we were told to do nothing unless sick enough to be hospitalized. Many countries were reccomending and even supplying it to covid patients as early as April 2020 (Honduras, for instance, where I was at the time). Many many press agencies ran articles stating that it this Nobel winning medicine has no known antiviral properties even though a quick look at the scientific literature confirms otherwise. I recently had a scratchy throat and sniffles (precisely the symptoms of omicron) and took some as a precaution and can confirm there are no side effects. Upon a consultation with a physician here , he confirmed that it is very effective. Pfizer's Paxlovid ($700. per course) uses the same method of action to combat the virus (nicknamed pfizermectin). Then you have your heavily promoted and subsidized but inneffective and dangerous Remdesivir. But of course all of this is misinformation. Anyone who has doubt about the ethics and sincerity and of corporate officers, elected and appointed government officials and professional journalists should be immediately discredited right?