Are you responsible for removing your boat from land from a hurricane?

[Paul L]

Just cause your boat does damage to another it doesn't nd scarily make you legally liable. For example

In re S.S. Winged Arrow, 425 F.2d 991 (5th Cir. 1970), affirmed that where a vessel had been sufficiently moored based upon the anticipated path of Hurricane Betsy, the Act of God defense applied to relieve its owner of tort damages resulting from its breakaway. From a review of the case law involving severe weather events, it is apparent that Act of God defenses will be granted as a defense to both third party tort claims and also contractual claims for failure to perform where reasonable decisions and precautionsunder the circumstances have been made.

and

Following Hurricane Katrina, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana held that a category 4 or 5 hurricane was an Act of God sufficient to bar a tort claim by a marina owner against the owner of a vessel that broke away from her berth, drifted and hit another vessel. The defense of Act of God applied because, 1) the accident was due exclusively to abnormal natural events without human interest, and (2) there was no intervening negligent behavior by the vessel owner. J.W. Stone Oil Dist., LLC v. Bollinger Shipyard, 2007 WL 2710809 (E.D. La. 2007). Judge Lemmon held in Stone Oil that hurricanes are considered as a matter of law to be an Act of God and defensible unless there is an intervening and contributing act of individual negligence. This obligation includes taking reasonable precautions based upon all available information.

[Secondshift]

Originally Posted by billknny

If your boat crashes into mine and damages it, and you can't pay the damages, you ARE a deadbeat plain and simple. Not being able to afford it doesn't let you off the moral hook.

Same thing applies if your boat lands up in my front yard and I have to pay to have it cut up and removed. Its not MY fault you let it wash up there. Why should I have to pay to remove YOUR boat? Not taking care of the damage and costs you bring on to other people makes you a deadbeat. Maybe there is a more polite word for it where you come from, but I don't know one.

If either of those things happen, I'd sue and get a judgement. Not my fault you chose a hobby you can't afford the consequences of. If your insurance takes care of those things, that is good for both of us. If not, it's not my fault.

I believe you sir are in error.
Firstly. During Irma 2017. A neighbor's 36' was damaged by a large power vessel that chewed through 3 other boats at the marina to get to his and having consulted several attorneys was turned away. He paid out of pocket to restore.

Secondly. If you pay someone to cut up a vessel without proper notifications You sir will be liable.

Having a boat float from a marina during a hurricane into a 10 million dollar house is a hobby few could afford.

Regards,
Ed

[Secondshift]

Well done Paul L

Withe the key point being
"Negligent behavior"

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Debgen

I guess I must be one of the "deadbeats" that everyone keeps referring to. I've had owned power and sail for over 40 years and have over 30K sea miles. I've never suffered a loss and always been diligent about maintenance and have been a prudent sailor. Currently I own a 48 year old boat that no one will underwrite except for liability. If I sustained a major loss from a storm event I do not have the funds to remove the vessel except for a chainsaw and a uhaul. Being marginal doesn't equivocate to being a "deadbeat" owner.

You should be able to get salvage coverage...or maybe your liability coverage has it already.

Not having a lot of money doesn't excuse you from your responsibilities.

Of course the old "blood out of a turnip" rule does come into play but that's not talking about responsibility.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

As a boater with little mean's and being retired, living only on Social Security, without a car or home to seaze, your proposal lacks teeth. My Boat which is my home is exempt from seizure in California, as it's not worth much. If it somehow got washed ashore I would have no money to remove it. I have no assets that can be seized and I don't need a driver's license. I no longer need my professional license either.

That is the problem with your proposal. Many of the boats that get washed ashore are owned by folks with little means. In the legal profession they're called judgment-proof. Doesn't mean you can't get a judgement on them, but collecting on that judgment is nearly impossible.

What really happens in hurricanes is that FEMA will Pay Salvage companies to remove boats. Just as FEMA will pay homeowners money to help restore their their homes. Even though the homeowners has insurance it may not be enough to cover cost of repairs. That's where FEMA comes in.

By the way I do have liability insurance. It has fuel spill coverage but no Salvage coverage.

Want to send those deadbeats to prison, that will only cost you $80,000 a year. Per person. Does not make economical sense compared to a $10,000 Salvage cost.

You make good points but that just means they will take a different approach...such as limiting the duration you can anchor...harassing you by doing potty checks 3 times a week at midnight...etc...until you give up and leave...then people will complain about the evil govt, who was actually backed into a corner.

Not saying it's right or wrong but it's the outcome that you can expect if the problem is big enough or you get someone in charge who sees it as an opportunity they will find ways to drive away the problem. Unfortunately those who do take responsibility can get swept up in the process.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by StuM

Does "maritime law" cover a boat which is actually on land (as opposed to washed up on a shore) ? If so, how far inland?

Not positive but I know if your boat washes up onto a beach maritime law still applies...I would assume if the incident was directly related to a vessel afloat foundering in a storm, the distance inland would be irrelevant.

This would be different from say a boat on a trailer in your back yard being washed into the neighbors house.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by Debgen

I guess I must be one of the "deadbeats" that everyone keeps referring to. I've had owned power and sail for over 40 years and have over 30K sea miles. I've never suffered a loss and always been diligent about maintenance and have been a prudent sailor. Currently I own a 48 year old boat that no one will underwrite except for liability. If I sustained a major loss from a storm event I do not have the funds to remove the vessel except for a chainsaw and a uhaul. Being marginal doesn't equivocate to being a "deadbeat" owner.

40 years and 30K miles seems a bit light on actual sailing/boating. This might expose me to some harsh talk, but yes, if you can not afford to pay for the problems you cause to others because of no insurance or lack of wherewithal then maybe you need to rethink things a bit.

If you were t-boned on the road by someone with no insurance or money and your new Corvette was totaled and it was all on you would you consider that O.K? Probably not, I'm guessing.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You make good points but that just means they will take a different approach...such as limiting the duration you can anchor...harassing you by doing potty checks 3 times a week at midnight...etc...until you give up and leave...then people will complain about the evil govt, who was actually backed into a corner.

Not saying it's right or wrong but it's the outcome that you can expect if the problem is big enough or you get someone in charge who sees it as an opportunity they will find ways to drive away the problem. Unfortunately those who do take responsibility can get swept up in the process.

In the San Francisco Bay Area anchoring is already limited in duration. Though enforcement is somewhat spotty. Myself I never stay in one spot more than about a week or so. I consider an Anchorage, with three boats in it very crowded. Most of the time I'm out in the back of Beyond with not nary a soul around me. Like right now for example.

Mine you I don't really worry about dragging as named storms here are non-existent.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by ixnax

If you were t-boned on the road by someone with no insurance or money and your new Corvette was totaled and it was all on you would you consider that O.K? Probably not, I'm guessing.

Not that I would ever want a Corvette if I had money. But if I did have a new Corvette I'ed have full insurance now wouldn't I, that would pay for the repairs if somebody without insurance hit it. That would be the only sensible thing really as most lower-income people wouldn't carry enough insurance to fix a totaled Corvette.

As others have said with a boat washed ashore in a named storm, the boys at FEMA will take care of it.

So not a problem at all and we can all go home now.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Not that I would ever want a Corvette if I had money. But if I did have a new Corvette I'ed have full insurance now wouldn't I, that would pay for the repairs if somebody without insurance hit it. That would be the only sensible thing really as most lower-income people wouldn't carry enough insurance to fix a totaled Corvette.

As others have said with a boat washed ashore in a named storm, the boys at FEMA will take care of it.

So not a problem at all and we can all go home now.

So who owns the car or the government (FEMA) will pay for it is an acceptable plan?

I wouldn't own a Corvette for longer than it took me to sell it. That was not the point at all. The point is that no one should expect anyone else, or the government to pay for their failures. And let's be honest here, there are folks cruising who are not doing their bit to fund FEMA.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by ixnax

So who owns the car or the government (FEMA) will pay for it is an acceptable plan?

I wouldn't own a Corvette for longer than it took me to sell it. That was not the point at all. The point is that no one should expect anyone else, or the government to pay for their failures. And let's be honest here, there are folks cruising who are not doing their bit to fund FEMA.

As others have said the courts have at least several cases found that boat's going to ground during a hurricane are an act of God.

If one owns an expensive car say $80k or higher, Your Average driver will not have insurance adequate to cover that. Just as if my $15,000 boat landed on top of a 10 million dollar house. I'm going to be a little light on covering that as well. That's why FEMA is there. To take care of natural disasters, where no amount of ground tackle would keep a boat in place.

Really proportionately boat clean up after a hurricane it's a fairly minor blip on the FEMA budget. That's not even enough to worry about from from a tax standpoint that is.

If you want to worry about your tax dollars, worry about Boeings space launch system that is 4 billion dollars over budget, and at least 3 years behind schedule. This for a rocket that is not reusable, that will cost over 2 billion dollars a launch. That dear sir is a crime. Especially when SpaceX can do the exact same thing, for less than 100 million a launch.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

As others have said the courts have at least several cases found that boat's going to ground during a hurricane are an act of God.

If one owns an expensive car say $80k or higher, Your Average driver will not have insurance adequate to cover that. Just as if my $15,000 boat landed on top of a 10 million dollar house. I'm going to be a little light on covering that as well. That's why FEMA is there. To take care of natural disasters, where no amount of ground tackle would keep a boat in place.

Really proportionately boat clean up after a hurricane it's a fairly minor blip on the FEMA budget. That's not even enough to worry about from from a tax standpoint that is.

If you want to worry about your tax dollars, worry about Boeings space launch system that is 4 billion dollars over budget, and at least 3 years behind schedule. This for a rocket that is not reusable, that will cost over 2 billion dollars a launch. That dear sir is a crime. Especially when SpaceX can do the exact same thing, for less than 100 million a launch.

In other words, somebody else who has insurance or pays taxes will cover you and "Government Waste!" Got it.

[Kiwi.]

Originally Posted by billknny

True for anything, of course.

Boats that are un- or under- insured, unregistered, or owned by irresponsible, deadbeats are the bane of waterfront communities, especially after a big storm, and are a big part of the reason there is such a backlash against cruising boats in many places.

It will eventually happen that SOME state will decide they have had enough, and require salvage insurance coverage, the the rest will follow very quickly.

In Queensland Australia, the State has already made salvage insurance a requirement to protect the Great Barrier Reef. For vessels over 50 feet it gets very expensive.

[stnick]

Most towns treat a boat like a abandon car Ticket it and after 90 days try and get possession than they determine if its a dead boat get a truck and 4 city works with chain saws , cut it up and to the dump !

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by ixnax

In other words, somebody else who has insurance or pays taxes will cover you and "Government Waste!" Got it.

You know even I pay taxes. Though not all that much.

So if your house is damaged by a Hurricane, you're saying you would refuse a check from FEMA, for damage not covered by your homeowner's insurance?

What I said is that if I owned a $100,000 car I would be extremely sure that my insurance would cover any damage to it. It would be Reckless of me to assume that someone driving a beater, could afford to fix a hundred thousand car.

The reality is that my pockets are not very deep at all. So if I was on the East Coast and my boat did go aground, then no I would not have money to remove it. Lots of people in that position. Lots of homeowners in that position to.

Mind you if I wasn't East Coast in hurricane season I'd find some place in the mangroves to tie up. But as we all know storm surge is a b****.