Prudent or Push it?

[Jim Cate]

If you never go out in challenging conditions, how will you gain the experience to deal with them when they appear unexpectedly?

Pushing your personal comfort zone a bit is a good practice, especially when you have some decent crew with you. As I have mentioned before, when Ann and i were preparing to leave SF for our first extended cruise, and with a new to us boat, we deliberately went sailing in winter storms. We learned a lot about dealing with such conditions... heaving to, storm jib management, use of the third (new) reef points and so on, all with the knowledge that there was a hot shower awaiting us, and that if something broke, Svendsens chandlery was nearby. It wasn't fun, but we learned a lot of stuff that was of use later on.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If you never go out in challenging conditions, how will you gain the experience to deal with them when they appear unexpectedly?

Pushing your personal comfort zone a bit is a good practice, especially when you have some decent crew with you. As I have mentioned before, when Ann and i were preparing to leave SF for our first extended cruise, and with a new to us boat, we deliberately went sailing in winter storms. We learned a lot about dealing with such conditions... heaving to, storm jib management, use of the third (new) reef points and so on, all with the knowledge that there was a hot shower awaiting us, and that if something broke, Svendsens chandlery was nearby. It wasn't fun, but we learned a lot of stuff that was of use later on.

Jim

Jim said it wasn't fun, and I suppose that's literally true, I remember being bundled up in full weather gear">foul weather gear, and it pouring down cold November rain, but at this remove, I would have to agree that just experiencing it was of great use, gave me more confidence, too.

Ann

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by MaineGuy

What are your ideal conditions on the water? 10/15/20 knots of wind? 1-3 foot seas? 3-6 foot? Where is your cutoff for staying in harbor versus taking off for the day?

Each boat will be different for sure, but for a typical 35’ cruising boat, what do you feel is the prudent weather cutoff?

We know a lot of cruisers who wait forever for a "weather window" meaning 4 days with no wind, then they motor like hell to get to the next anchorage before any breeze comes up. On the morning of the day when the weather window is starting it looks like an Oklahoma land rush. So, for a typical cruiser, the upper limit is around zero.

We know folks that get up and head out at daylight to beat the afternoon breeze which they know is coming.

Us, we're just about the opposite. We'll wait for a bit of breeze rather than go for a sure motor trip. 12-15 knots is ideal. We can sail in 6-8. Below that we'd rather wait it out. Here in Mexico the wind usually comes up around 1:00 PM. and most days are in the 8-15 knot range. Perfect. We'll typically pull out of the slip at 12:30

But for longer trips, it depends on which direction we are going and which if any capes we need to round.

Generally if the forecast is 20 kts, or more and we have a long open water beat ahead, we know it will be bumpy and we'd probably like to avoid it. But if that's the best forecast for the next week, (every other day is going to be 25-30) we can deal with the 20 knots upwind and we'd go and make the best of it. 25-30 or more, on an upwind passage, in open water, boy we'd rather not, but we can if we have to.

If we have a major cape to round, we might go even if the winds at the cape look to be higher that 20, if we know the rest of the passage will be in more gentle breezes. Once you get around the wind will be less and the nasty chop will settle down.

Off the wind, we don't much care, but if there are gale warnings, yeah, we'll wait.

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by MaineGuy

Today we made the decision to stay in port rather than have wind on our beam at 15kts with 3-5 foot seas, with another small craft advisory.

Also understand that small craft advisories aren't as relevant to sailboats. If I stayed in port whenever there was an advisory in effect I wouldn't do nearly as much sailing.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If you never go out in challenging conditions, how will you gain the experience to deal with them when they appear unexpectedly?

Pushing your personal comfort zone a bit is a good practice, especially when you have some decent crew with you. As I have mentioned before, when Ann and i were preparing to leave SF for our first extended cruise, and with a new to us boat, we deliberately went sailing in winter storms. We learned a lot about dealing with such conditions... heaving to, storm jib management, use of the third (new) reef points and so on, all with the knowledge that there was a hot shower awaiting us, and that if something broke, Svendsens chandlery was nearby. It wasn't fun, but we learned a lot of stuff that was of use later on.

Jim

We did our training in Puget Sound and the Straits of Juan de Fuca and Straits of Georgia in the eight years before cruising when we raced this boat 45 times a year, rain of shine, wind or no wind.

It is good training. Even with a full crew, which makes it easier (unless half of them are throwing up) you learn how the boat handles various conditions. Those lessons you can apply when you are short handed.

So the plan is to go out on some kind of regular schedule, regardless of the weather, and learn to deal with it.

[wingssail]

Talk about training, one year we had a 30 mile beat from Merry Island in the Straits of Georgia back to West Vancouver in 30 knots of wind and blowing sleet. When we finished everyone was freezing cold and soaking wet and everything in the boat was too except the two pilot berths. The crew who had promised that they would do the delivery home bailed out and hitched rides in various cars. That left Judy and I to do the delivery home ourselves and the weather was forecast to stay the same. But we had to go to work a day later, so, after a trip to the laundromat to wash and dry all of our clothes and bedding, and after running the espar all night, we got up the Sunday morning and headed out to find clear blue skies and 30 knots alright, FROM THE NORTH! Yea!

If we'd have stayed home in Seattle that weekend because of a forecast we'd have missed out on both of those days of sailing, which were great experience builders and tough but valuable lessons.

Log Book Pages: Southern Straits Race

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If you never go out in challenging conditions, how will you gain the experience to deal with them when they appear unexpectedly?

Not only that, but you may never discover or learn that you and your boat can actually thrive in higher winds and seas than you think.

My first Atlantic crossing was in 1980 when I was young on a wooden 50’ Rhodes ketch with the South African owner and two of his friends. They had been sailing for decades, seemed macho and fearless to me. We ran into a few strong gales and the first one I was terrified to the point of near paralysis. By the last one it was just something to be managed through.

The OP mentioned 15 knots and 3-5’ seas on a beam reach. That is pretty much champagne sailing weather as far as I’m concerned but I suppose to someone who’s not been out in it it seems challenging on paper.

As for the weather forecast I always plan on the sustained wind speed being double the forecast as far as prepping the boat is concerned. Has happened a few times and it’s aggravating to not be prepared for that and in some instances dangerous. I’m one of those sailors that puts his dinghy on deck for any forecast over 10-12 knots, for example.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We know a lot of cruisers who wait forever for a "weather window" meaning 4 days with no wind, then they motor like hell to get to the next anchorage before any breeze comes up. On the morning of the day when the weather window is starting it looks like an Oklahoma land rush. So, for a typical cruiser, the upper limit is around zero.

We know folks that get up and head out at daylight to beat the afternoon breeze which they know is coming.

Us, we're just about the opposite. We'll wait for a bit of breeze rather than go for a sure motor trip. 12-15 knots is ideal. We can sail in 6-8. Below that we'd rather wait it out. Here in Mexico the wind usually comes up around 1:00 PM. and most days are in the 8-15 knot range. Perfect. We'll typically pull out of the slip at 12:30

But for longer trips, it depends on which direction we are going and which if any capes we need to round.

Generally if the forecast is 20 kts, or more and we have a long open water beat ahead, we know it will be bumpy and we'd probably like to avoid it. But if that's the best forecast for the next week, (every other day is going to be 25-30) we can deal with the 20 knots upwind and we'd go and make the best of it. 25-30 or more, on an upwind passage, in open water, boy we'd rather not, but we can if we have to.

If we have a major cape to round, we might go even if the winds at the cape look to be higher that 20, if we know the rest of the passage will be in more gentle breezes. Once you get around the wind will be less and the nasty chop will settle down.

Off the wind, we don't much care, but if there are gale warnings, yeah, we'll wait.

And that, in a nutshell, is why it is a good thing in life to have a sturdy boat with good windward capability, and to not quail if it is necessary to sail 16 hrs to windward in 45 knots. You might hesitate, if you lacked confidence in yourselves or your boat. In that particular case, it was a cyclone we were avoiding by going to a hurricane anchorage. It was bloody uncomfortable, too, square waves and all.

Ann

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Not only that, but you may never discover or learn that you and your boat can actually thrive in higher winds and seas than you think.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The OP mentioned 15 knots and 3-5’ seas on a beam reach. That is pretty much champagne sailing weather as far as I’m concerned but I suppose to someone who’s not been out in it it seems challenging on paper.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A friend and I would sail EVERY Friday, come hell or high water, and sometimes it would be, both.


Only way to actually learn.


15 kt - wow where do I go to find that? Perfect conditions. In my 35 years in SF it was always windy, here since 2016 I wish there was any kinda wind between the islands. I could go find it in the Strait of Juan de Fica or Georgia, but they are both hours away. I'm content to piddle around here, it is gorgeous.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by MaineGuy

We are about to leave Maine and headed for the ICW (and south to Florida). We are still very new to sailing, and have sailed in as much as 15kt winds with 1-3 foot seas. All of which has been fairly comfortable. Currently, we are waiting out some windy/wavy weather, though and I'm getting impatient.

For now, it's a game for us between getting south before snow, but getting south safely. I have about 6 different apps that predict wind/waves, plus watching weather on TV, etc. But small craft advisories have been issued pretty much each day since we left port. Today we made the decision to stay in port rather than have wind on our beam at 15kts with 3-5 foot seas, with another small craft advisory.

I guess I just need to be a bit more patient and wait for a better weather window to head down the coast.

MG, you should start out with a reefed main and your smallest jib, if cutter rigged use the staysail. You need to bunny hop harbors starting tomorrow if you intend to get to the Chesepeake before the end of Nov. The weather will not get any better, nor will any further 'weather windows' magically appear until Spring in New England, where I grew up sailing for 30 years. Unless you are sailing a crewed 12 meter how far do you realistically think you'll get when a 'weather window' is announced by your multiple media sources? 150 mile day in air temps of now 40f in the day will have you spent and over sleeping your alarm clock.

Head out and make as many comfortably safe miles you can each day between Sunrise and 1 hour before Sunset. Plan multiple harbors as refuge each day, and choose the anchorage when you are there. Dont over shoot to the next one because you dont seem like the type that wants to be navigating in the dark.

When you get to Sandy Hook NJ pm me and I'll meet you down in the harbor bearing gifts I know you will use.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by MaineGuy

We are about to leave Maine and headed for the ICW (and south to Florida). We are still very new to sailing, and have sailed in as much as 15kt winds with 1-3 foot seas. All of which has been fairly comfortable. Currently, we are waiting out some windy/wavy weather, though and I'm getting impatient.

For now, it's a game for us between getting south before snow, but getting south safely. I have about 6 different apps that predict wind/waves, plus watching weather on TV, etc. But small craft advisories have been issued pretty much each day since we left port. Today we made the decision to stay in port rather than have wind on our beam at 15kts with 3-5 foot seas, with another small craft advisory.

I guess I just need to be a bit more patient and wait for a better weather window to head down the coast.

Definitely get out there. 15kts wind on the beam with anything under 10’ waves is as perfect as sailing conditions get. I would change my previous plan if those conditions came up, and go with them rather than something else.

Small craft advisories are for 10-15ft open fishing boats, called “tinnies” down here as they’re often aluminium.

[Seman]

Try Madagascar!

[FutureStories]

Depends on the boat! I take my Hobie 14 out in anything under 10kts and use it up to 15kts and 2’ seas.

Single handing my Irwin 32 I like being in the 15-20 sweet spot (still likes full sails).

Been in 30+ sustained with gusts of 40 (a lot for the Chesapeake) and felt good about the boat, but my crew was unhappy.

When I was sailing a BCC we picked a day that we had ~20 and it was perfect for that boat. And with my crew that day we would have still been having fun until about 35/40 unfortunately the winds went from ~20 and went to ~15 but we did 40mi in 8 hours beating into the wind and waves.

I definitely advise pushing the limits. Places like the Chesapeake and Gulf are great for that since they’re very forgiving. We had a lot of wind today and RC canceled the race for too much wind. Which I think is BS, it should be the captains choice to participate or not. You don’t get good at sailing in 30+ conditions if you only ever go out when it’s 10-15! Limitations in under 40 conditions are usually captain and crew related.

[FutureStories]

Also MG... you said typical 35’ cruising boat... what are you sailing in? Endeavour Cat, Catalina 350, Island Packet, Pacific Seacraft? All these boats are considered typical by someone. But all are very different.

When you’re coming through the C&D feel free to hit me up and I’ll show you how to break stuff! Or just buy you a beer and recommend a decent anchorage.

[daviddiscenza]

Like so much in life, the answer is "it depends". 100% of my sailing these days is on the mighty Chesapeake Bay. The depth averages around 15-20 feet up in the northern part where I sail. If you get a good breeze 15 - 20) knots you'll get 2 - 3 foot waves pretty quick. I like sailing in those conditions, but the admiral does not. So, if she's my crew mate, we stay in the slip.

If it's my son, on the other hand, we're out there, closed hauled and burying the bow in the waves.

If it's raining, we haven't even left home. This sailing season we stayed home a lot. Same thing when it's hot and humid with barely enough wind to register on the instruments...and that was the other weather we had this season.

So, it depends...on the comfort and abilities of your crew (especially if your crew is your spouse) and the weather conditions in general. That's my two bitcoins.