New AGMs to replace lead acid?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by john61ct

No need to even think about cranking CCA ratings once you get up to hundreds of AH.

As long as my port-side diesel believes that too, we're good to go.



-Chris

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Attachment 151760

If this math is correct... (??)

Looks like Trojan T-105s are least expensive (of these particular comparisons) then Firefly Oasis discharged only to 50%, then Lifeline to 50%, then Oasis to 80%, then Lifeline to 80%...

I chose the 3/G31 vs. 4/GC2 comparison because that's our real-world situation: we had space for 1x8D, 3xG31s, or 4xGC2s.

Trojan and Firefly prices are a quick WAG from the first Internet return I found, prolly doesn't include transportation, tax, etc. Lifeline prices were what I paid last month. I included Trojan T-105s here simply because they're a popular flooded lead-acid solution, presumably not too dissimilar from other decent 6V FLA brands.

Small differences in bank weight don't seem particularly significant, to me.

No guarantees the math is correct.



-Chris

Where did you get the Trojan T-105 statement of 100 cycles @ 50%?

[Catmandu]

Trojans list a cycle life for T-105 of 1,600 charge cycles if one limits the DoD to 50% and 1,400 cycle if you go to 60% Depth of discharge.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

Trojans list a cycle life for T-105 of 1,600 charge cycles if one limits the DoD to 50% and 1,400 cycle if you go to 60% Depth of discharge.

Can you provide a link?

Previously they stated half of that.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Where did you get the Trojan T-105 statement of 100 cycles @ 50%?

I'd seen someone here on CF say 1000 @ 50% DOD, so I used that. I wasn't shopping for FLAs, so didn't do any serious research on those.

Looks like 1200 would have been more accurate according to Trojan literature.

Signature Line Flooded | Trojan Battery Company

Their bottom line in the sample speculative calcs would be even more favorable...

-Chris

[Catmandu]

Here's the link requested. See graphs at the bottom of the data sheet

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/dat...ata_Sheets.pdf

FWIW the sales people at the golf cart shop stated that of all the batteries they put into carts Trojans were the best by far in terms of longevity.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

Here's the link requested. See graphs at the bottom of the data sheet

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/dat...ata_Sheets.pdf

RE lines are much more robust than regular T-105, and usually priced accordingly

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

FWIW the sales people at the golf cart shop stated that of all the batteries they put into carts Trojans were the best by far in terms of longevity.

Compared to Interstate, other Johnson Controls maybe the Sam's.

Certainly not the likes of Rolls/Surrette, but they probably never see that level of quality.

[Catmandu]

Well like I said earlier , my research led to the conclusion that all things considered you cannot beat the price/performance of the Trojans. I was wondering if anyone out there had found something better.

[Catmandu]

Ah, here's a better link for the cycle life of regular T-105

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Sig...tLineSheet.pdf

Looks like it more like 1200 cycles at 50% discharge. Still according to the golf cart people so much better than the other batteries they sale ... I bought mine for about $103.00 each.

Adding the hydrolink is critical for making ones life SO much easier in keeping them watered.

[softdown]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I'd seen someone here on CF say 1000 @ 50% DOD, so I used that. I wasn't shopping for FLAs, so didn't do any serious research on those.

Looks like 1200 would have been more accurate according to Trojan literature.

Signature Line Flooded | Trojan Battery Company

Their bottom line in the sample speculative calcs would be even more favorable...

-Chris

I wonder about all of the patently false and easily verifiable crap that gets posted so frequently. It doesn't seem like a lot of people know the difference between right and wrong anymore. So they flock to the internet and try to sell their Lithium or AGM or Cat etc technology via grotesque lies and manipulation of cherry picked and false data.

100 cycles could easily mean a 3 month lifespan.

While I am preaching.....since when was manufacturers claims the holy grail?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by softdown

I wonder about all of the patently false and easily verifiable crap that gets posted so frequently. It doesn't seem like a lot of people know the difference between right and wrong anymore. So they flock to the internet and try to sell their Lithium or AGM or Cat etc technology via grotesque lies and manipulation of cherry picked and false data.

100 cycles could easily mean a 3 month lifespan.

While I am preaching.....since when was manufacturers claims the holy grail?

Sure, better to use manufacturer's data vs. hearsay... and sure, manufacturer's data may or may not be perfect info. And may not represent reality. And may not be perfectly comparable. All that about "caveats" (above) applies.

(I suspect 100 was a typo; I used 1000. Apparently should have used 1200, but I wasn't really paying to much attention to non-AGM batteries so didn't look closer...)

FWIW, I was more interested in a method for comparison... and whether that kind of approach could be useful... not so much in the outcomes... hence little research into each of the possibilities. I reckoned folks could do their own research into likely candidates for their own specific situation.

And FWIW, the batteries in the chart example were selected only because the discussion was (at the time) focusing on Firefly and Lifeline AGMs... and because we have Odyssey AGMs... and then because some FLAs are often recommended fro comparison. I don't have a dog in the discussion about which type of batteries might float somebody else's boat.

-Chris

[john61ct]

I think when a manufacturer has decades worth of excellent reputation among thems that know, their data can be trusted.

But in general, not in this case as precise, for conditions outside their lab.

Trojan certainly has that, and if T-105 are available locally for only $25 more than Sam's, I say go for it.

Spare a thought for the ignorant, spending around the same for something fraudulently labeled as Deep Cycle Marine from bigbox retail.

[Scott Berg]

A note on the Trojan RE Series (T-105); they are a wee bit wider than the non RE version! Note that they are exactly 181mm, just as noted in the spec sheet, but the regular ones are about 179.5 (the sheet says 181mm). Who would think it would matter? Our box held 6, exactly, of the traditional T-105's. When we upgraded to the RE version the last one wouldn't fit! I kept looking at the spec sheet that showed it was the same as the old ones (that we'd already recycled) and I measured one at 181. My wife, much smarter than me, said, 'Scott, they are wider.' I relied on the spec sheet; I mean, who are you going to believe, a spec sheet or your eyes! Well, we went to the battery store with our caliper and discovered the difference. Modification to the box and we're in (or at least, the RE's are!). I think they are worth the difference but we'll tell you when they have 4 more years. Still test new after the first 4.

[softdown]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

A note on the Trojan RE Series (T-105); they are a wee bit wider than the non RE version! Note that they are exactly 181mm, just as noted in the spec sheet, but the regular ones are about 179.5 (the sheet says 181mm). Who would think it would matter? Our box held 6, exactly, of the traditional T-105's. When we upgraded to the RE version the last one wouldn't fit! I kept looking at the spec sheet that showed it was the same as the old ones (that we'd already recycled) and I measured one at 181. My wife, much smarter than me, said, 'Scott, they are wider.' I relied on the spec sheet; I mean, who are you going to believe, a spec sheet or your eyes! Well, we went to the battery store with our caliper and discovered the difference. Modification to the box and we're in (or at least, the RE's are!). I think they are worth the difference but we'll tell you when they have 4 more years. Still test new after the first 4.

Having been a quality control guy who routinely rejected aerospace seals for being .001" off, I find Trojan's size labeling to be utterly despicable. Size matters.