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Old 07-03-2013, 12:09   #46
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

I didnt consider the RFI, thanks for that.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:13   #47
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

I like the bus idea, and have several on my boat in various locations. As discussed on other threads on CF, keep in mind that unbalanced or separated DC circuits will generate magnetic fields that will affect your compass(es). Just make sure when using a local bus that either you have a balanced pair (pos. and neg. follow the same path and serve the same load(s)) or you stay away from your compass(es) with an unbalanced line.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:46   #48
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Go for it... In all seriousness please avoid the use of these devices.... You'd be surprised how often I find them looking like this..
Those do not really look like small wires we are discussing and that really is not a 3m scotchlock.

Here is a photo,

The one on the right is a Tyco industries 2 wire filled connector (one is opened up in the center to display the gell) the left on is a 3M scotchlock. They are also available in 3 way and bridge versions. (the blue thing above is a cheap unfilled autoparts store bridge type). It will specify the guage of wire they are suitable for use on on the box when you get them and you will have failures if you go outside of specifications.

Where I work we use them on 22awg and 18awg power pairs for remote terminals running at about 1amp 130vdc. I have never seen a properly crimped connector fail. I have seen the wire harnesses fail where moisture has penetrated a wires insulation and and electrolisis has burn it open, but not once at the beans.

You can get them on Amazon.

For larger wires I like the crimps with heat shrink myself, not a fan of bridging, I prefer a teminal strip or better yet temination on a fuse panel.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:53   #49
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

I've had great luck with these.
Order Online- Discounts

The trucking environment is a lot like boating in some ways. We are always fighting the corrosion from road salt and now, the de-icer that is used. The de-icer is terribly corrosive.
The posi-locks are re-usable, as well, so it justifies the extra investment. I've repaired wiring in minutes on the roadside using these. THe psi-taps are great for tapping into a hotwire and involve no stripping of the main line. I use them for adding on over-size load lighting when hauling an over dimensional load.
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Old 07-03-2013, 13:03   #50
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

Blue Seas has some great fuse blocks/terminal strips if you want to run a wire to a bus bar and fuse each cct. out.

ST Glass - Blue Sea Systems
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Old 07-03-2013, 13:13   #51
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

skip-
The "orange" connector in Gary's pix is what we used to call a "button" connector. The hardware stores sell them, Walmart sells them, RatSchack sells them, color coded for wire gauge, and a choice of 2-3-4 wires into each one. This is what Western Electric (MaBell's own Q) used to use for telephone wires, plain 24g wiring. Slip the wires in, crunch down the button, twist so the wires form a strain relief. Internally, it is a "guillotine" connection just like a ScotchLock.

If you use the silicon-jelly filled buttons, telco style, those splices will last forever and they are the simplest most reliable way to do this stuff. I'd really doubt that you have wires any thinner then 24AWG. the big trick is to get a proper STRIPPING TOOL for that wire, because if you nick it, it will break. If you've got no stripping tool, sacrifice a thumbnail, not a metal edge.

Of course we could use the "S" word...cordless soldering guns work just fine on that thin stuff.<G>
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Old 07-03-2013, 14:04   #52
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by The Garbone View Post
Those do not really look like small wires we are discussing and that really is not a 3m scotchlock.


Gary,

Those were most definitely 3M Scotchlok terminals. The 3M PN is #06127 and model is 801 Scotchlok..

3M Scotchlok 801
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Old 07-03-2013, 14:15   #53
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Does anybody really think that soldering tiny wires is going to be the end of boating civilization as we know it?
Nah. My next boat is gonna be wireless.
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Old 07-03-2013, 17:50   #54
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
Does anybody really think that soldering tiny wires is going to be the end of boating civilization as we know it?

Vibration :
The vibration of all that mass of big herking crimp connectors is going to be way more devastating than the mass of some solder.

Poor solder technique:
Learn how to do it.

Next?

Steve
+1

Its all about strain relief. I solder the real small communications stuff, shrink tube it and tywrap on to itself so no strain it put on the joint.
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:08   #55
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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+1

Its all about strain relief. I solder the real small communications stuff, shrink tube it and tywrap on to itself so no strain it put on the joint.
It's not just about strain relief but also the hard point where the solder ends.
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:14   #56
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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It's not just about strain relief but also the hard point where the solder ends.
There is a hard point where the wire comes out of the crimp too. Anyway you go small wires need to be supported when spliced.
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Old 07-03-2013, 19:05   #57
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Gary,

Those were most definitely 3M Scotchlok terminals. The 3M PN is #06127 and model is 801 Scotchlok..

3M Scotchlok 801
I learn something new every day. I agree with you about those, I would never use a dry crimp mod like that in a marine environment. You need the goo filling to protect the connection from moisture otherwise it will fail.
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Old 07-03-2013, 20:23   #58
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
skip-
The "orange" connector in Gary's pix is what we used to call a "button" connector. The hardware stores sell them, Walmart sells them, RatSchack sells them, color coded for wire gauge, and a choice of 2-3-4 wires into each one. This is what Western Electric (MaBell's own Q) used to use for telephone wires, plain 24g wiring. Slip the wires in, crunch down the button, twist so the wires form a strain relief. Internally, it is a "guillotine" connection just like a ScotchLock.

If you use the silicon-jelly filled buttons, telco style, those splices will last forever and they are the simplest most reliable way to do this stuff. I'd really doubt that you have wires any thinner then 24AWG. the big trick is to get a proper STRIPPING TOOL for that wire, because if you nick it, it will break. If you've got no stripping tool, sacrifice a thumbnail, not a metal edge.

Of course we could use the "S" word...cordless soldering guns work just fine on that thin stuff.<G>
They are fine for BELL Wire....not so good for stranded 30-24 gauge wire.

Strain relief means they grip the insulation at the same time they grip the wire.

Scotch,Button, and Bell have a v-groove that pierce the insulation and make contact with the Bell Wire.

Bell Wire is a semi-annealed single strand wire, ranging from 30 to 22 AWG. Stranded AWG 30 to 22 is made up of 5 to 10 individual wires equaling the CM of the single strand in the same AWG of Bell Wire, it is an completely annealed wire.

Scotch Locks will and do break the individual strands of an stranded AWG wire in the equivalent size to an AWG Bell Wire. They were never meant to do the same thing.

You can however use an stranded crimp connector on a Bell Wire, you just can't use an Bell wire crimp on a stranded wire.

At 22 to 30 AWG we are not typically carrying any current, that could do damage. We are carrying signal, wich can cause drop out.

Lloyd
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Old 07-03-2013, 21:11   #59
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Re: How to crimp little, tiny wires

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There is a hard point where the wire comes out of the crimp too.
True but it seems to me that the hard spot coming out of a crimp or heat shrink is not nearly as rigid as the hard spot at the end of a solder joint.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie91 View Post
Anyway you go small wires need to be supported when spliced.
Of course. No question about that.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:57   #60
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Lloyd,


I am not really convinced about that. If you use a filled bean with made for the specified gauge of wire I really do not see the issue with high opens etc. A standard RJ45 data jack uses stranded wire in a dry710 type punch down connector which works on the same principle as the beans. A lot time the jacks would be installed using filled beans instead of the stock dry punch down because you never know when someone's dog will decide to piss on the jack.

As far as some of this ultra thin stranded wire we see on some gear IMO it's all about the manufacturer trying to save a buck. Stranded wire is a bit more flexible and has less resistance per foot than solid of the same awg. A lot of vender wire is junk.

In the interest of full disclosure on my boat the only harness using beans is the radio. If a run is critical enough I will usually buy better wire and run an entire new home run from the terminal block to the gear to minimize splices in general. The benefit of a small boat.
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