Fischer Panda 4200 Won’t Start

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Well it was the exact same problem, but on the exhaust valve instead of the intake valve this time. Yes, I properly adjusted both valves last time. So, idk.

The ultimate answer is to pull the head and examine it, but I’d rather not on the hook with limited tools

Running hot will let the valve seats "sink" on most engines. Maybe run some barnacle buster through it, check the heat exchanger for pieces of old impellers and put an IR thermometer on it after it's run a bit to see how hot it's getting.

Welcome to cruising. Glad you had a great sail, wonderful your wife is still on board with the program. Wait until the toilet breaks!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Running hot will let the valve seats "sink" on most engines. Maybe run some barnacle buster through it, check the heat exchanger for pieces of old impellers and put an IR thermometer on it after it's run a bit to see how hot it's getting.

Welcome to cruising. Glad you had a great sail, wonderful your wife is still on board with the program. Wait until the toilet breaks!

Good ideas will do. And thanks lol

[sailinglegend]

I had exactly the same problems and it was the incorrectly installed exhaust muffler. Water got into the exhaust when the boat healed over at certain angles.

My original Fischer Panda manual had one paragraph on the position of the muffler - the last manual I downloaded had 16 pages on the importance of the getting the muffler close to the genset - if possible immediately underneath it and 600mm below the exhaust inlet valve - almost impossible on many installations!

So buy or hire a diesel compression tester and that will probably show the problem. I had to remove the cylinder head and re-seat the valves 3 times before I cured the problem by adding another exhaust muffler and draining them manually after each running of the genset. Very inconvenient.

Alternately re-install it somewhere that will stop water ingress.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

……….- if possible immediately underneath it and 600mm below the exhaust inlet valve - almost impossible on many installations!



……adding another exhaust muffler and draining them manually after each running of the genset. Very inconvenient.



Alternately re-install it somewhere that will stop water ingress.

Interesting. You r running 2 water lifts in series?
Also, what is a exhaust inlet valve?

[flightlead404]

I readjusted the valves yet again. The exhaust had lost clearance. Intake was fine. I checked the impeller it was fine but what idiot designed this? The access to the nuts that hold the cover plate is essentially zero. I lost several before I was able to reinstall. Had to make a trip to Ace.

There is also no way to check for any impeller pieces in the heat exchanger.

I ran barnacle buster through for an hour or so. There is a slight increase in water flow maybe. So far three starts and maybe 4 hours of run time on it.

[Scubaseas]

Loosing valve clearance to the point of not starting is not normal. You may have loose valve seats. Or really bad rockers (doubtful). Or magic pushrods. This is a Kubota D722?

What are you setting them to? And how? As in .012" and set one cylinder to two valves just rocking open then adjusting what's loose or are you using flywheel marks for TDC on each cylinder?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Loosing valve clearance to the point of not starting is not normal. You may have loose valve seats. Or really bad rockers (doubtful). Or magic pushrods. This is a Kubota D722?

What are you setting them to? And how? As in .012" and set one cylinder to two valves just rocking open then adjusting what's loose or are you using flywheel marks for TDC on each cylinder?

This is the Farryman diesel. Spec is .2mm for both intake and exhaust and I’m as close as dammit. The rockers and pushrods look fine based on visual inspection without disassembly.

I’m setting the clearance for each valve at tdc compression and there’s one cylinder.

[Scubaseas]

One cylinder makes it easy. Not familiar with the Farryman but I'd be comfortable setting them loose, say .012" or 0.3mm when cold. Might tap a bit but not loose enough to pop a valve keeper out. I'd still say loose valve seat though. It's probable given the need to keep readjusting if the other stuff looks OK. You would have a lot of lateral play in the rocker if that was your issue.

[goeasy123]

What engine model number?


We had similar problem. Turned our to be the 2 head bolts under the rocket cover backing off. ...still not rotating freely, but way off torque spec.


Also, agent told me to change the valve clearance to 0.15mm.

[flightlead404]

There’s not really much I can do on the hook but readjust. In may I can borescope and take the head off if needed.

[flightlead404]

To update this. I did the cycle of adjust ex valve clearance, run 2 or 3 times, re-adjust valve clearance 3 to 5 times, meaning the the valve seat is now at least 1mm deeper into the head than it should be. A huge amount. The last couple of runs the generator was puking large amounts of black “stuff” out the exhaust. It looked like soot (definitely not oil) and cleared up after about 15 mins of running.

I’m now in a marina converting to LFP for house. I hope to minimize or eliminate generator use between now and May when I get back to Hilton Head. Hoping that increased insulation and dc-dc charging for the house will be enough.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

To update this. I did the cycle of adjust ex valve clearance, run 2 or 3 times, re-adjust valve clearance 3 to 5 times, meaning the the valve seat is now at least 1mm deeper into the head than it should be. A huge amount. The last couple of runs the generator was puking large amounts of black “stuff” out the exhaust. It looked like soot (definitely not oil) and cleared up after about 15 mins of running.

I’m now in a marina converting to LFP for house. I hope to minimize or eliminate generator use between now and May when I get back to Hilton Head. Hoping that increased insulation and dc-dc charging for the house will be enough.

Thanks for the update flightlead404, it’s really unusual to have a rapid loss of valve seat material to the point of having to adjust the clearance after each run. It’s worth considering the more ominous possibility that a stretching and necking of the valve stem is the underlying problem.

[team karst]

Every 200 hours i needed to do a valve job on a gas marine 440 motor, due to unleaded gas. It needed hardened exhaust valve seats. That got old.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Thanks for the update flightlead404, it’s really unusual to have a rapid loss of valve seat material to the point of having to adjust the clearance after each run. It’s worth considering the more ominous possibility that a stretching and necking of the valve stem is the underlying problem.

Either way major surgery needed. I’m unsure if parts like valves and seats etc are even available. I don’t think these are sodium filled exhaust valves so at least there’s that.