Fischer Panda 4200 Won’t Start

[flightlead404]

My 2006 Fischer Panda (Farryman) 4200 won’t start. I appreciate and help regarding troubleshooting this. I’m on the hook outside Boot Key Harbor.

Background. Purchased the boat a little over 18 months ago with just over 100 hours showing on the generator. I have been running it monthly when at home base for 45-60 mins a month with load (battery charger, water heater, a/c). Done all the regular maintenance. It’s always run fine, although a little slow to start, usually taking two attempts on the starter button.

We left Hilton Head early November and have been running it 2-3 hours every 2-3 days depending on weather and main engine run time. It’s been running fine.

Two days ago it simply would not start. Fuel pump is running and I verified fuel at the bleed nut on the solenoid so I know the solenoid is working. I can also hear and feel the solenoid click on start. Engine is cranking over, start battery is fully charged. The two relays and 25A fuse are fine. No water in the oil. There is a sort of grinding noise when cranking, which is normal and I believe is the injector pump (described in the Farryman manual as a “grating” sound.

I even pulled the valve cover off and eyeballed it, staked both valves neither are stuck.

The only difference is the sound on cranking is slightly different. Possibly it’s cranking slower, hard to tell. The injector pump and fuel pump sound are the same, but there’s a sort of “lug” sound missing. Hard to describe. Previously when cranking it would go “lug….lug…..lug lug lug” then run. Now it just cranks without the lug sound.

Any pointers please. My next step is to pull the cylinder head, which I’m loathe to do without proper tools while at anchor somewhere.

[FPNC]

Drop a small amount of oil into the cylinder to prevent compression from bypassing the rings. If it starts you have identified the problem.

[team karst]

This uses glow plug starting? DC clamp on ammeter is useful here.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by team karst

This uses glow plug starting? DC clamp on ammeter is useful here.

No mention of glow plugs in Farryman manual, only mention is in FP manual troubleshooting table referencing Farryman manual go figure. I can’t see a glow plug so I think not.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

My 2006 Fischer Panda (Farryman) 4200 won’t start. I appreciate and help regarding troubleshooting this. I’m on the hook outside Boot Key Harbor.

Background. Purchased the boat a little over 18 months ago with just over 100 hours showing on the generator. I have been running it monthly when at home base for 45-60 mins a month with load (battery charger, water heater, a/c). Done all the regular maintenance. It’s always run fine, although a little slow to start, usually taking two attempts on the starter button.

We left Hilton Head early November and have been running it 2-3 hours every 2-3 days depending on weather and main engine run time. It’s been running fine.

Two days ago it simply would not start. Fuel pump is running and I verified fuel at the bleed nut on the solenoid so I know the solenoid is working. I can also hear and feel the solenoid click on start. Engine is cranking over, start battery is fully charged. The two relays and 25A fuse are fine. No water in the oil. There is a sort of grinding noise when cranking, which is normal and I believe is the injector pump (described in the Farryman manual as a “grating” sound.

I even pulled the valve cover off and eyeballed it, staked both valves neither are stuck.

The only difference is the sound on cranking is slightly different. Possibly it’s cranking slower, hard to tell. The injector pump and fuel pump sound are the same, but there’s a sort of “lug” sound missing. Hard to describe. Previously when cranking it would go “lug….lug…..lug lug lug” then run. Now it just cranks without the lug sound.

Any pointers please. My next step is to pull the cylinder head, which I’m loathe to do without proper tools while at anchor somewhere.

may be a stupid remark but how about the engine stopping handle , cable not fully in
I have no glow plugs on my engine apart from an electrical kind of lighter on the airintake
Good luck

[DirtPete]

Usually when these pandas don't start valves are out of adjustment..common issue

https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/f...ustment.31436/

[Madehn]

I doubt compression is the issue. This came on suddenly. My guess is fuel supply. Clogged injectors ? injector pump? Spray some wd40 in the air intake and see if it fires. If it does you definitely have a fuel issue. Also check exhaust path is it clear? As long as it didn’t overheat then I am betting on fuel. However I seem to remember that pandas had a reputation for burning up exhaust valves or at least Carboning them up to where they would not seat. Please let us know what you find.

[flightlead404]

Will do the valve clearance check, very used to doing that long time 930 owner/racer/engine builder/modifier.

Will put a few drops of oil into the cylinder while I’m doing that to see if it helps with compression.

Will do the wd40 check and report back on all.

Grrr this am realized my Victron battery monitor is reporting the wrong SOC for the voltage, I may have been cycling my AGMs into the 30% range. Sigh, never ends.

[flightlead404]

No joy spraying starter fluid into the open air intake.

I know little about diesels, is it safe to pull the injector, leave connected to the fuel rail, put it into a plastic bottle, and crank to check fuel delivery?

About to start on valve clearance check.

[flightlead404]

In the Farryman manual for the engine it says “check that the decompression device is in operating position”. Very ambiguous. Does this mean the decompression device should be engaged, or that it should be in ENGINE operating position, ie disengaged. I’m assuming the latter.

In this case I had slightly larger than .2mm clearance on the intake, but zero clearance on exhaust.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

No joy spraying starter fluid into the open air intake.

I know little about diesels, is it safe to pull the injector, leave connected to the fuel rail, put it into a plastic bottle, and crank to check fuel delivery?

About to start on valve clearance check.

I won't say it's "safe" but I've seen it recommended and done it myself. Good for checking the nozzle pattern and delivery. Just be very careful not to let the fuel spray onto your skin. If it's working correctly there'll be enough pressure to penetrate into your body. Very bad thing.

If it didn't start or at least pop on starting fluid, I'd suspect a compression problem. The absence of the lug lug sound tells me it's just spinning free. There's not a compression release lever is there?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

I won't say it's "safe" but I've seen it recommended and done it myself. Good for checking the nozzle pattern and delivery. Just be very careful not to let the fuel spray onto your skin. If it's working correctly there'll be enough pressure to penetrate into your body. Very bad thing.

If it didn't start or at least pop on starting fluid, I'd suspect a compression problem. The absence of the lug lug sound tells me it's just spinning free. There's not a compression release lever is there?

There is a compression release knob which appears to hold the intake valve open through at least one rotation. It is not engaged and does appear to be functional. Pulling the engine through by hand using a spanner on the crankshaft key way it certainly feels like there’s plenty of compression.

[flightlead404]

Ok new development. When I was fiddling with the valves I ran teaspoon or so of oil (actually outboard gear lube as it was handy) past the intake valve.

After I was done with the valves I tried to start it and it fired up for maybe 10 seconds then shut down (no alarm on control panel). Cranked but would not restart.

I can see two possible reasons for this behavior, either there really wasn’t enough compression and the oil helped create a bit more for a few seconds, or possibly there was some starter fluid pooled in the intake from this am that was enough to start it.

Honestly I don’t believe either of them. There was plenty of compression turning the engine by hand, a struggle to get past TDC, and the starter fluid is highly volatile. I would expect even a decent pool of it to have gone in several hours and anyway, the engine didn’t even cough while I cranked it and sprayed the stuff in the am.

Really stumped and annoyed at this point.

[Searles]

Disconnect the stop device ,be it cable or solenoid ,have had both fail ,to check ,disconnect the fuel line to the injector ,solid fuel should be seen as you crank the motor ,on easy first check ⚓️⛵️

[flightlead404]

I have a feeling the solenoid is bad even though I can feel and hear it actuating on start. I tried removing it and bench testing but not early sure how. It has two small spade connectors and one large. Looking at the diagram on the GSR site it appears it has a rectifier built into it. I tried to connect +12v to either one or both small spade connectors and ground to the large and no action, but I definitely feel a click when it’s installed. New solenoid arriving on Friday. Sick of this, I’m going diving until it gets here.

I did disconnect the high pressure fuel fitting on the injector and connected a small dia plastic hose and ran to a bottle. When I crank I get just a little fuel and no more. Possibly just the residual fuel in the pump.