Balmar MC614 and generic alternator

[Thomasx]

Hi

Is it possible to use Balmar MC614 regulator with any alternator?
If not, what preconditions must the alternator meet, to be possible to use with the MC614?

Thanks

[marty9876]

Any might be a over generalization but I believe most can be adopted for external regulation by having an alternator shop modify the alternator to drop the field level wire/control out of the alternator. Fairly cheap modification from what I’ve read ($100-$150) the challenge is you don’t end up with much thou. An internally regulated voltage limited design alternator wil/may be over taxed and overheat when driven hard by a external regulator - naturally depending on the original alternator and its design specs.

[Thomasx]

Ok, thanks!

Apart from Balmar, what other alternators "natively" prepared for external regulators are there?

[marty9876]

That's a loaded question All depends on what your trying to do/what motor it's going on.

For me, on a 3ym yanmar I was hitting a price point and went with https://shop.marinehowto.com/t/alternators--regulators which so far I've been really happy with. Does exactly what I thought it would and great support. Mainesail is a well respected contributor here, nice to support him.

Mark Grasser - DC Power Solutions is another popular place. Again, all about the price point your are wanting to hit.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Thomasx

Ok, thanks!

Apart from Balmar, what other alternators "natively" prepared for external regulators are there?

One of the most important parts of the SYSTEM is the SIZING of the alternator based on the anticipated use.


A marina-hopper with a 250 ah house bank will have completely different needs than even a 400 ah bank who likes to anchor out.


Then add the contribution from solar, if you have it.


And all based on an energy budget. If you don't have one, make one.


All the best

[dkenny64]

there is a whole other side to think about..


a generic alternator - internal regulator... is basically a single stage
charger.. outputs a fixed voltage..sometimes this will push the capacity

of the alternator sometimes not..but will the batteries reach FULL??


external regulated..
more than one stage... many are 3 stage.
battery chemistry - AGM, flooded..lithium?
temperature compensation for charging..
more AH put back into the battery in fixed time..
can limit how hard the alternator is pushed.. 120amp alternator only putting out 90amps..


there is lots to consider...


are you bank mixed battery types?


-dkenny64

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by marty9876

That's a loaded question All depends on what your trying to do/what motor it's going on.

For me, on a 3ym yanmar I was hitting a price point and went with https://shop.marinehowto.com/t/alternators--regulators which so far I've been really happy with. Does exactly what I thought it would and great support. Mainesail is a well respected contributor here, nice to support him.

I am curious, which alternator please? Also what is the size of your house bank? How long have you had it? Serpantine or V?

To respond to the OP, I believe the MC614 regulator with properly installed sensors and temperature sensors would improve the performance of any alternator and that that alternator if properly programmed and using the belt manager (when necessary), would work fine for its normal life. It will not charge as fast as the more expensive ones, but if run long enough, it will properly charge the batteries and not shorten their lifespan.\


This is a good post by Stu

Maine Sail post


About a conversion to external

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by rgleason

I am curious, which alternator please? Also what is the size of your house bank? How long have you had it? Serpantine or V?

To respond to the OP, I believe the MC614 regulator with properly installed sensors and temperature sensors would improve the performance of any alternator and that that alternator if properly programmed and using the belt manager (when necessary), would work fine for its normal life. It will not charge as fast as the more expensive ones, but if run long enough, it will properly charge the batteries and not shorten their lifespan.\


This is a good post by Stu

Maine Sail post


About a conversion to external

Thanks, rg.


I would add that the OP should do a search on Small Engine Mode, which is a management issue for the regulator for this or Belt (Amp) Manager or both.

[marty9876]

Originally Posted by rgleason

I am curious, which alternator please? Also what is the size of your house bank? How long have you had it? Serpantine or V?

https://shop.marinehowto.com/product...ally-regulated

315ah bank, 3x g31 AGM currently. Only had for a few months this season so far, 1/2” v belt. Belt manager 2 I think, tops out at 66 amp output steady right now regulated down. For me, the cost for a Balmar 100amp alternator deregulated to 80amps was twice the cost of the alternator - double the alternator cost for ~15 amp output and worry about belt wear and dust etc.

[Thomasx]

Hi

I am looking for an alternator to used for bulk charging lifepo4 batteries. The bank is 130Ah and I am looking for an alternator that can supply 100A.

So in practice the alternator needs to run for up to about an hour, with full load.

I know of course about balmar alternator, but is wondering of there are any alternatives.

I am planning to use the MC614H regulator.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Thomas.

The Balmar Max Charge MC-614 regulator will control any externally regulated P-type alternator.

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by marty9876

https://shop.marinehowto.com/product...ally-regulated

315ah bank, 3x g31 AGM currently. Only had for a few months this season so far, 1/2” v belt. Belt manager 2 I think, tops out at 66 amp output steady right now regulated down. For me, the cost for a Balmar 100amp alternator deregulated to 80amps was twice the cost of the alternator - double the alternator cost for ~15 amp output and worry about belt wear and dust etc.

Thanks, that is helpful and I totally understand your choice. At .4 x315ah = 146 amps acceptance. My current bank small .25x225ah=56 amps acceptance. I might double that size or change to AGM next cycle, so I still would like 120a and serpentine. I have 23 yr old 90-65 Balmar rebuilt (non oem stator - de-rated) which requires at least 1600 rpm to charge which is unsatisfactory performance. I am hoping that morning charging at anchor in reverse at lower rpm (900-1200) will be quieter, quicker to 85%C and cooler, eutectic refrig will draw down faster. Then get enough solar to 99%C. Top it off with the alternator.

Eutectic refrig initally draws down about 40ah, then cycles at 12hr intervals drawing about 20ah. Our other uses are about 15ah in the evening. So the battery seems to be down 35-40ah in the morning. Not big loads but they have to be met. We seem to be cycling in the most inefficient range 80%-100% and the drawdown is not 50%C, but more like 18%C.

Is there an output curve for your CMI alternator somewhere? Or can you give me a couple of points at low rpms?

I have the original new unused hitachi 80a alternator that came with the 3ym30 engine (2013), I wonder if it would be worthwhile changing it to external regulation? I think your CMI has better windings, diodes, brushes and bearings though.

Thanks very much.

[john61ct]

Have not read responses sorry.

Yes with a good alt shop, most any alt can be converted to external VR.

If the 614 is needed to

prevent overheating from a higher CAR batt, or to

give precise profile control / voltage adjustment to feed a sensitive expensive bank

then leaving the stock fitted alt in place to save money is perfectly valid, regardless of sizing issues.

Especially if you don't actually need higher amps, or the alt contribution is a very minor energy input compared to the total picture.

But if you would greatly benefit from higher output, then replace the alt while you're at it, especially with a large frame unit, assuming it is possible, that can output 80+% of rated capacity all day long.

You may need to also increase ventilation from your engine compartment.

[john61ct]

This thread covered lots of ground on the topic http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-202839-7.html

Maine Sail's site, golden
https://marinehowto.com/category/alternators/

Search string of important keywords, adjust to suit
https://www.google.com/search?q=site...te+large-frame

[Locquatious]

The 2006 Sebring alternator was externally regulated. If you can find it, look for the original Denso 421000-0234 or 04606 alternator. If you get it from a junkyard, try to get the field wire connector. Or you might try a reman(ufactured) unit for the 2001-2006 Seebring, any motor. I think the reman number is 13868 probably available from auto stores. Both are powerful hairpin alternators with good low-rpm output, but the Denso I think has the edge. Don't use them without regulation or you'll fry your bats.

Your external regulator should be able to control a field current of around 6.5 amps. The field in the Sebring was fused at 7.5V. I assume the external regulator uses a no-load battery sense wire to monitor the battery voltage.