Balmar alternators or standard?

[John Holbrook]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

And maybe I missed it, but not a consensus yet on the OPs question: Buy a Balmar of keep the standard or upgrade it"..

No the OP didn't ask if he should by a Balmar, he did ask the following three questions and I think got very useful answers. I think if you read carefully there is enough info already here to answer your questions.

Originally Posted by daletournier

The boat I'm in the process of purchasing has the standard 80amp Yanmar regulator (Hitachi?).

How much better is a Balmar or equivalent?

I intend to buy a second alternator as a backup (non fitted) but I really don't know if a smart system makes that much difference in the real world?

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

Had a similar decision to make, but the Balmars are painted ( not the best for heat dissipation) and pretty expensive.
Here's what I did.
went online to DB Electrical and bought their Yanmar mount, 80A single drive belt alternator for about $90.
Bought a Sterling remote mount regulator and wired in directly to the brush, as per their instruction.
I have a 400 Ah bank and this set up has served me well for between 4 to 6 months cruising in each of the past four years.
What you do need to do though, is replace the standard Hitachi output wire to a heavier gauge, so that it won't overheat under extended charging loads, imposed by the regulator. I used #8, which is overkill, but the wire temp never gets above about 11 degrees F. ( previous to the wire upgrade, it actually melted the insulation off the first inch of the wire coming off the alternator)
I've done a couple of these conversions now, so if you don't have a lot of dough, and want to go this route, let me know and I'll elaborate.

KiwiJohn,

I'm in the same boat. I happen to have a Sterling PDAR that i got as a great deal! just need an alternator that I can crack open and do the Mods to. I find their instructions a bit confusing (and I'm technical) I'm actually a bit stuck on their instructions to solder 10amp wire leads to the brushes. what the heck is 10amp wire?

do you have any pictures of your setup?

[Sternwake]

They likely meant 10AWG wire, as opposed to wire rated for only 10 amps which would be 16 gauge or thinner depending on which ampacity chart you look at.

Don't think I've seen 10 gauge wire attached to brushes though, but my time inside an alternator is severely limited.

I use a 25$ Transpo540HD Voltage Regulator. I thermoepoxied a heatsink to its underside, and added a low cfm 60MM computer fan. It has a 2k Ohm potentiometer inside the casing for adjusting target voltage. I depotted this micro potentiometer and cut the legs from it, soldered 20 awg wires to remaining legs, twisted them ran twisted wires through a ferrite, in an attempt to reject RFI, and ran them to a 3600 degree turns counting Bourns potentiometer located next to my 3 wire calibrated voltmeter whose sense leads attach to battery terminals..

A K type thermocouple epoxied to my alternator casing reveals alternator casing temp. Same on battery.
A hall effect Ammeter over (+) battery cable reveals how much amperage the battery accepts.

I twist potentiometer while engine runs to dial a voltage/dial an amperage. Range is 12.8 to 15.3v.

I prefer manual control, especially when Automatic options hover in the 700+ dollar range.

[offpist]

We have 1 pcs Balmar AT200 and 1 pcs Balmar 150A Alternator using external Mastervolt regulators. And I have to point out the AT200 can NOT run at 100% output, as it will overheat.

Instead of running them both at 350A total, we run them at 250A total.
With solar helping at 45A we can reach almost 300A total.

(We have 1000AH Lifepo4).

The two temperatures and amp readings low in the picture is temp of each alternator and field currents, so I can keep an eye on the alternators.

[01kiwijohn]

Sorry for the delay in response. Somehow, my credentials became "invalid".
I don't have any useful pictures, I'm afraid. If you need I could probably get some, I'll be re-wiring another alternator, for another boat, soon. If you happen to be in the Tacoma area I could do it for you.
10 AWG is a bit big for the brush wire, you need something more flexible, so it'll won't inhibit brush movement.
I would suggest 10 AWG to replace the alternator output wire to the battery terminal on the starter however, as there will be quite a heat build up, for an extended period, while the higher out put alternator is charging at Bulk. ( I used 8 AWG as that was what I had on hand, at the time. Its max temp has been measured at less than 120 F)

[John Holbrook]

Offpist do you know how many amps you get put of the AT200 and other Balmar alternator individually? Did you use Yanmar brackets and pulleys to mount the second Balmar from the optional Yamnar second alternator? Thanks.

Originally Posted by offpist

We have 1 pcs Balmar AT200 and 1 pcs Balmar 150A Alternator using external Mastervolt regulators. And I have to point out the AT200 can NOT run at 100% output, as it will overheat.

Instead of running them both at 350A total, we run them at 250A total.
With solar helping at 45A we can reach almost 300A total.

(We have 1000AH Lifepo4).

The two temperatures and amp readings low in the picture is temp of each alternator and field currents, so I can keep an eye on the alternators.

[offpist]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Offpist do you know how many amps you get put of the AT200 and other Balmar alternator individually? Did you use Yanmar brackets and pulleys to mount the second Balmar from the optional Yamnar second alternator? Thanks.

The 150A alternator gives out about 100A and the AT200 gives out about 150A. At full power they both overheat in just 20 min.

And yes, we use the optional original Yanmar mount for the second alternator.

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by offpist

The 150A alternator gives out about 100A and the AT200 gives out about 150A. At full power they both overheat in just 20 min.



And yes, we use the optional original Yanmar mount for the second alternator.

Offpist,

If you were to just recharge with alternators (no solar or other sources), while at anchor for multiple days, what operating capacity do you think your 1000Ah LifePO4 could provide on a "best practice" basis?

For example, between recharges would you let them get down to 20% SOC and then typically recharge back to 90%, for an "operating storage bucket" of 70% of your nominal 1000Ah? Or do you observe more or less that 70%?

Thanks

[offpist]

I usually stay between 40% and 80% when at anchor.
But when we were crossing the atlantic for 18 days we were some days at 20% before starting the engine to charge. I have tested at 10% once and it was still far from Low Voltage Cutoff.

We have an really high power consumtion onboard.
Big freezer, big fridge, electric outboard, watermaker, electric cooking on induction plates, and we even run the 16 000 BTU AC off the inverter for an hour before going to bed sometimes.

[Journeyman]

Offpist,

What is the practical rationale for operating at 40-80% SOC? Does this seem to be an advisable capacity range with Li-Ion?

One always hears loosely stated that you get "the full capacity" of Li-Ion in use, whereas with lead acid its only on the order of 50% available. But then anecdotally I hear useful capacity in the real world for a practical Li-Ion installation is less. What are the basic concerns that tend to make you limit to 60%?

The reason I ask is we have been running an all electric boat as well, but on TPPL for 6 years (alternator charged at 225A continuous for 1 hour, and all electric consumers-16 Kbtu reverse air, cooking, refrigeration, autopilots, outboards, water maker, etc. with no need for a genset, solar, wind, etc.) and are perennially tempted to go to Li-Ion but cannot justify it due to this real world useful capacity concern.

Other than weight savings, and perhaps less voltage droop, the benefits just don't seem significant.

Thanks.

[a64pilot]

May not have anything to do with it, but the few Hybrid automobiles I have looked into run their traction battery packs right at 40% to 80%. Toyota says in their Prius its increases life expectancy of the pack, but their cycle rate is huge compared to what we are doing, so it may not apply at all.

[offpist]

You can use 80%DOD or even 90% DOD with no problems.
But for us we tend to use between 40-80% SOC as it fits with our usage. 1000AH is a lot of storage, see no reason to use 90% DOD at daily basis.

We use more power than solar provides, so we have to charge with engine or generator to top it up.

[Symphony]

Journeyman,
what DOD do you normally run your TPPL bank to?

Offpist,
your Li-ion bank sounds enormously powerful and lovely, especially getting rid of the need for propane and gasoline storage onboard.

[Pacey16]

Hi Dale, Which model engine is it? if a 4JH3E its hard finding additional alternator brackets if you want to add a 2nd alt. I had some made up when I was in Phuket, probably a bit overkill but I dont like running the engine just to charge. You still in Europe?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by offpist

We have 1 pcs Balmar AT200 and 1 pcs Balmar 150A Alternator using external Mastervolt regulators. And I have to point out the AT200 can NOT run at 100% output, as it will overheat.

Instead of running them both at 350A total, we run them at 250A total.
With solar helping at 45A we can reach almost 300A total.

(We have 1000AH Lifepo4).

The two temperatures and amp readings low in the picture is temp of each alternator and field currents, so I can keep an eye on the alternators.

Could you describe to us how you are measuring field current and temperature of your alternators? Very interesting.