General Info: Electrical

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

That's true, but then anything above 1.100W will need to be wired separately.

Another solution might be to transform 110 to 220V before the inlet (or use 220V/60Hz power-outlets of the marina to hook up). You then can charge the batteries as is and eventually use the 220V inverter for your appliances on board without any change.

If it has power-assist capabilities you can even top up the transformed shore power if needed by the batteries.

You are assuming a 10a circuit. There are a lot of 16a circuits installed in boats in the EU.

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by glassgal

Thinking about purchasing a Lagoon 450 Catamaran; it is European 220. Can this be converted to US 110? Does anyone have experience with this? If so how much are we looking to spend and what would be a time frame? Does anyone know who does this work?

Glassgal. We have a 2014 450 which is 220V/50Hz factory wired and we are at this moment shore plugged to 110V/60Hz. No mods, no additional equipment! Some key equipment on the boat is wired for dual 220V/110V & 50/60Hz voltage/frequency ie Battery charger, Aircon, Water Heater. Then with the bat charger working to fill batteries, you then have your Inverter which will provide 220ACV to plug outlets and appliances. For other appliances ie washer/dryer, we need to run the generator (220V). You need to ensure you dont switch on (at the control panel) any non-complying items, then this arrangement works. The cable sizing is suitable for both voltages.

I’ll hazard a guess and say that most 450,and perhaps other Lagoon owners, are not aware of this.

[hellosailor]

As bill & bamboo said.

But really, everything depends on "How much stuff?" [RIP George Carlin] is involved and how heavy the installed and intended loads are. If there are a lot of heavy AC loads like air conditioning, hot water, jacuzzi (G) then you may find you can't just drop in a 110/220 transformer at a reasonable price. But that may still be cheaper than installing new devices. The cash side of the math all depends on what you've got, what it needs, and what you intend to add or use.

If the boat has few AC systems on it, and a transformer can keep them all happy (bear in mind all marina's may not have 50A service, 30A is still common) and you're only planning to add light or occasional loads?

You might drop in a transformer to keep what is there happy, and just ADD IN a couple of 110V runs to outlets, for your TV, stereo, hair drier...whatever other needs you have. That might sound crazy--but it is cheaper than the cost of ripping things out and replacing them, and gives you the option of going both ways.

All depends on what you're running.

[Pascals Wager]

A 220V L450 can plug into 110V shore power as Emerald attests, many boats have done this cruising for years. AC motors in aircon, washing machines etc which are induction will be less efficient and i believe microwave ovens dont enjoy the experience. Your battery charger is built around an isolation transformer and can take 110V and as suggested power inverters. If you want a truely versatile setup use a DC generator and a bank of inverters and you can plug into anything. I spoke recently to an American wanting to convert his boat to 110 and he suggested the ABYC might have guidance. Worth checking if US registered and insured to ensure compliance.

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Emerald Sea

Glassgal. We have a 2014 450 which is 220V/50Hz factory wired and we are at this moment shore plugged to 110V/60Hz. No mods, no additional equipment! Some key equipment on the boat is wired for dual 220V/110V & 50/60Hz voltage/frequency ie Battery charger, Aircon, Water Heater. Then with the bat charger working to fill batteries, you then have your Inverter which will provide 220ACV to plug outlets and appliances. For other appliances ie washer/dryer, we need to run the generator (220V). You need to ensure you dont switch on (at the control panel) any non-complying items, then this arrangement works. The cable sizing is suitable for both voltages.

I’ll hazard a guess and say that most 450,and perhaps other Lagoon owners, are not aware of this.

So if you are plugged in to 110V 60 Hz does your aircon run on this as well as 220V?

[kcj]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

So if you are plugged in to 110V 60 Hz does your aircon run on this as well as 220V?

My aircon runs fine, but the aircon motors are all rated for 50 or 60 hz.

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

So if you are plugged in to 110V 60 Hz does your aircon run on this as well as 220V?

I guess you missed this in the mix of my words. Yes, the aircon runs on 110V as stated in the Cruisair user manual. Its not as efficient as 220V but does push out the chilly air. No loss of efficiency with the batt charger or hot water.
HNY.

[CatNewBee]

Caribbean's Leading Chandlery - Budget Marine

A little more sophisticated:

110V/120V 60Hz to 220V/230V/240V 50Hz Converter

Here's one from Mastervolt with 13kVA:

http://www.oceanoptions.com/content/...-system-13-kva

Just drop in one of those and be happy around the globe... ;-)

[Matagorda]

Originally Posted by glassgal

Thinking about purchasing a Lagoon 450 Catamaran; it is European 220. Can this be converted to US 110? Does anyone have experience with this? If so how much are we looking to spend and what would be a time frame? Does anyone know who does this work?

Hi Glassgal

We have a Lagoon 42 factory fitted with 220V / 50Hz. We added 2 x 7kVa Mastervolt isolation transformers. While in US marinas, we run most things using the 220v 60Hz supplies that are reticulated throughout the boat. This power is fed via the transformers from our dual 110V 50Amp 60Hz shore power supplies. The beauty of the isolation transformers is:

1) for grounding safety, and
2) to limit galvanic corrosion to anodes from stray currents coming from the shore power supplies.

Cost of this set up was US$5k, and it took a day to install. The transformers are available within a couple of weeks after ordering.

This set up works best for us. Others promote different approaches to solve the problem. If you look into other posts on this well published topic, you will find that a lot of people suggest the use of a large battery charger / inverter set up instead. We think this is OK and relatively cost effective if you only have 3 or 4kVa of consumption on board. We chose against this option since we have >10kVa of demand.

The top of the line technical solution for our case would be to install a high capacity frequency converter. This will convert on board power to 110V 60Hz for you. These are normally best suited to large power boats, but I know of one cat of similar size to a Lagoon 450 that has a 12kVa unit installed. I am sure it works great, but the downside is high cost (>$25k), large size, and very heavy weight.

For small 110V appliances, such as TV's and kitchen appliances, we use small (3kVa) $150 step down transformers. Some items, including microwave or washer / dryer, contain electronics that do not like 60Hz and will only run on the gen set or the inverter, as others have mentioned. We have found that this is not too much of an inconvenience.

The biggest challenge we found is making sure that items not compatible with 60Hz are not inadvertently switched on while being fed from shore power. I have warning notes (to myself) attached to the circuit boards as a reminder to check before energizing anything.

The other lesson we quickly learned when planning this retrofit is that there are a lot of electricians around who think they know what they doing but don't really understand this topic well because they haven't done it before. We spent a lot of time and research finding the best technical solution for us, and then finding right marine electrician. We now have confidence we have a safe and effective set up.

Cheers

[Matagorda]

Correction. This:

The top of the line technical solution for our case would be to install a high capacity frequency converter. This will convert on board power to 110V 60Hz for you.

Should read:

The top of the line technical solution for our case would be to install a high capacity frequency converter. This will convert shore power from 110V 60Hz to 220V 50Hz for use on board.

[CatNewBee]

Well, there are cheaper frequency converter units around.

the 3.8kVA is around 860$, it should be OK for everything on board except
the AC. But it has a separate shore power wiring in the Lagoon anyway.

[arsenelupiga]

what are you guys running to use that much power ?

coffee grinder ?

cant just get generator and forget shore power and potentially dangerous conversions.

[CatNewBee]

Hey. I do not need shore power at all.

Question was, if convert the whole Lagoon from EU to US standards at all or leave it as-is and how to connect to shore power in the US if needed.

Most boats / catamarans in the EU do not have AC / generators. This is more a US thing. It is more common to have the heating option installed in EU waters.

[valhalla360]

Where will you use the boat and for how long?

If it's moving permanently back to the USA, it will either cost you convert or be a hassle because you will have to special order 220v-50hz equipment.

If you will be traveling the world, you will have to deal with the hassle no matter what you buy, so it really doesn't matter (220v-50hz is more common so could actually be a benefit).

A good fairly straight forward method is to set the boat up as follows:
- Large battery charger that functions on 110 or 220.
- Large inverter that matches your boat system.

The inverter powers the AC loads and the battery charger keeps the batteries up. Eliminates issues with frequency and voltage regardless of the power source. Since the batteries are largely just a pass thru, they don't experience significant wear and tear but can allow the charger to be sized for continuous not peak loads. The inverter needs to be sized for peak loads (such as starting the air/con).

[CatNewBee]

A short example:

A Victron Quattro 12-5000/220-100-100 is a great device, it can swallow 50 and 60Hz, anything from 110 to 240V (configurable), has 5kVA inverter output and a 220A battery charger you can use to create from an input of 110V/25A/60Hz
up to 220V/50Hz/2.8kVA (12A) power output without draining your battery,
and with battery support up to 5kVA by discharging the battery with up to 160A.

it has built-in 2 automatic transfer switches rated each 100A, a programmable input current limiter and the power assist function.

in 50Hz countries you can even use the power assist function to temporarily top up the shore source or generator for higher demands.

It costs around 4k$