Keel Disaster - The Verdict?

[Gone2long]

Thank you very much.

The boat was made by Chita Inc from Japan, a company which seems to have gone defunct, but the boat is definitely not a "one off".

As noted in earlier posts, it seems that the most likely build is a Yashima 25, which is based on a VdS design. And from what you gentlemen and others have suggested, it seems like it has, for the greatest part, a lead keel, and that the keel is not integral to the hull. See all numerous, previous input.

I do appreciate all the great tips on what to look for, and I will make an initial inspection myself before going any further into this. I should note that I am not in the US so a lot of the technical assistance suggested is not readily available. Also, this is not a brokered deal, so brokers are not available to assist either. Hence, the myriad of questions on my part.

Want to thank you all for your invaluable advice to an admitted novice when it comes to the structural design of such beasts.

Best regards,

G2L

[Gone2long]

Folks,

Here are two shots of the keel bolts. At least we know it is a bolted keel. What can we tell, if anything from these photos about the condition of the boat and seal of the keel to the hull?

Thanks again for any input,

G2L

[CarlF]

I'd feel pretty good about what you're seeing. The bolts show no sign of corrosion and the bilge looks like it's been unusually dry. The fiberglass work in the grid is very heavy duty. I would poke around that grid just to make sure the grid isn't wood (not bad) with advanced rot (bad). But I doubt you'll find anything as you'd usually see some sign of rot and past repairs.

I assume that if you put your hand down into the keel sump it doesn't go "on and on" into some huge cavity.

The forward bolts are quite far apart which is strong and the use of thick "L" reinforcing bar is much better than just washers.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a socket wrench on those bolts and see if they turn easily (e.g. bolts have broken off) but I really doubt there's a problem. You could just wait for the surveyor.

Is the bow to the left of the picture? If so, the single bolts on the right would be over the aft part of the keel where it gets thin and might be just fiberglass. A single bolt on the center line isn't very strong - but you don't need it if there's no lead under them. Try to measure and mark on the outside of the boat where the keel bolts are located. I'm betting everything will make sense.

You do seem to have a broken ground strap probably from a Ham or SSB radio. You could start a whole thread on whether it's better this way.

Carl

[smurphny]

Don't think I've seen a lead/iron keel quite that shape. I would wonder whether the beam-side leverage it is exerting is just too much for the narrow-ish width at the (keelson) hull. Think you should check the basic engineering because it may be an issue without a solution.

[capnorv]

Thats one of the best old keel fastenings I've ever seen! Looks to be in great shape as can be seen through this wireless connection. But then I'm a hands on kind of guy. Good luck

[delmarrey]

I would agree, for an oldie it looks pretty good. See if a strong magnet it attracted to them. If not, then that's another plus.

I suspect as stated in another post the growth around the keel/hull joint is most likely due to the joint sealer not holding the bottom paint.

My keel joint has been sealed off with a couple layers of epoxy and glass, then a barrier coat. If the keel were loose then one knows it, due to the epoxy/glass would crack easily.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

[U][I][B]
who cares if you offend the seller,,,,he most likely knows what happened and does not want to tell you,,,,you are buying a boat NOT a friend,,,take a good look then talk him down on price,,,if you want to buy cheap you must insult,,,,,,i hate to admit this but I sold cars for a living many years ago,,,did not make lots of money at it but learned lots about buying and selling,,,

insult insult insult,,, talk him down on the price

And I used to manage a 2500 unit per year used car lot in a past life. Buyers who came in and insulted our product, which we always reconditioned well, I instructed my salesmen to throw off the lot. They would just be trouble in the future, and I didn't want customers like that. We had good product, we knew it, and were not going to play games.

I always paid good money for good product, and just passed on the iffy stuff, unless the seller would make allowances for reconditioning. How many units do you think I bought in order to sell 2500? I never insulted the seller either.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I'd feel pretty good about what you're seeing. The bolts show no sign of corrosion and the bilge looks like it's been unusually dry. The fiberglass work in the grid is very heavy duty. I would poke around that grid just to make sure the grid isn't wood (not bad) with advanced rot (bad). But I doubt you'll find anything as you'd usually see some sign of rot and past repairs.

I assume that if you put your hand down into the keel sump it doesn't go "on and on" into some huge cavity.

The forward bolts are quite far apart which is strong and the use of thick "L" reinforcing bar is much better than just washers.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a socket wrench on those bolts and see if they turn easily (e.g. bolts have broken off) but I really doubt there's a problem. You could just wait for the surveyor.

Is the bow to the left of the picture? If so, the single bolts on the right would be over the aft part of the keel where it gets thin and might be just fiberglass. A single bolt on the center line isn't very strong - but you don't need it if there's no lead under them. Try to measure and mark on the outside of the boat where the keel bolts are located. I'm betting everything will make sense.

You do seem to have a broken ground strap probably from a Ham or SSB radio. You could start a whole thread on whether it's better this way.

Carl

Thanks Carl,

Will act on all your advice. It does seem that the double bolts are forward, and, they also seem to have a coating of epoxy on them. That did not replicate very well on the photo I supplied, so sorry about that.

Also, if anyone can point me to a "professional" check list on all items I should look at, that would be great. Right now, I've got my own, but I am sure that it is incomplete in some way.

Want to take a close look myself before I spend the money on a surveyor.

Regards to all,

G2L

[Cheechako]

Only and 8' draft?? Walk away from that. Unless all you want to do is race....

[knottygurl]

loosen the keel bolts off, then scrape out old mastic from joint, re seal with approved keel caulk, re tork bolts, re glass if required or re bottom coat.
as for impact or collision not sure but does not look like it. Maybe the owner was racing and one of his competitors placed a c clamp there for the season in hopes to slow them down more. Thats what one did to the boat I was racing on as crew.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by knottygurl

loosen the keel bolts off, then scrape out old mastic from joint, re seal with approved keel caulk, re tork bolts, re glass if required or re bottom coat.
as for impact or collision not sure but does not look like it. Maybe the owner was racing and one of his competitors placed a c clamp there for the season in hopes to slow them down more. Thats what one did to the boat I was racing on as crew.

Thanks, Great story. I saw the boat up close the other day. Just looks like an old repair that was not done well.

The keel is steel with what seems like only a gelcoat covering - no glass at all. And the coating is coming off in various places, including the old repair.

Thanks for everyone's replies.

G2L