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Old 12-09-2017, 08:40   #16
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
How about that "someone" be you? You're hired. Please report back with what you find out.
I just KNEW that someone would suggest that. LOL
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:09   #17
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Take pictures and look over everything in depth, it will help the surveyor as he's going to be looking at a lot of boats right now. If you see damage on the outside take a look on the inside. When I had a claim last year I was suprised what looked like minor damage on the outside was a bigger issues on the inside.

My claim (for a boat that ran into mine at dock) took 4 or 5 months to settle in a non-busy time like you'll have to deal with after a hurricane.

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Old 12-09-2017, 09:35   #18
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

I join the ones who are sad for you and you loss. But happy with the comment of a new and better boat two years later.....Hold that positive thought.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:55   #19
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

The good news is that Geico (which is the insurance you got through BoatUS) is fair and responsive as far as I have heard. It was formerly Seaworthy Insurance, a leader in the marine insurance field. A few folks I know have had major claims (lightening strike, major collision, and storm damage) were all made whole.

Zee's list of items of concern fairly well matches my own. I think the issue is there is falling over and then there is falling over. I would add checking the rudder bearings and steering gear, and I would be most concerned with the integrity of the hull and bulkheads. A good hard impact on the side of the hull will lead to cracking and delamination, much of it invisible and difficult to assess. I agree that you need a surveyor to assess the damage. The $800 or whatever will be a good investment; I can guarantee you that he/she will pay for themselves and more when the smoke clears with the insurance company settlement. It's a no brainer.

If the mast hit anything on the way down, I'd insist on all the standing rigging being replaced as it's now all suspect. If it didn't, I'd probably still insist on the high side being replaced given the shock loading it sustained from impact. I'm with Uncivilized...get a rigging inspection. Like the surveyor, it will pay for itself.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:22   #20
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Zees list is very good. Lot of variable 's in play. As mentioned you may want to contact the guy who did the survey have him take another look. Insurance will be backed up I worked a few storms when I was in insurance and 3-5 month backlogs did happen.
I have looked at several boats that fell over, some were totaled other weren't really varied depending on boat and how it hit. We did tend to find more damage the bigger the boat. 28' boat falls over not much of an issue had a 50' go over and cause almost 200k in damage.

Also note if your boat was the only one to fall over in the yard insurance may go after the yard for improperly securing the boat. I know of one case where that happened and arbitration did assign some percentage to the yard.

Tabbing of bulkheads tended to be the most expensive problem we encountered in these falls.

Also read your policy check for anything on storage and storms. Sometimes there are oddities there but the agent should have made you aware when signing you up.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:37   #21
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

I feel your pain. We had been liveaboards since purchasing our boat new in 2004. For a brief period of time we lived in a condo in Cambridge, MD about a block away from a marina where we kept our boat. Since she'd never been out of the water for any extended period of time, we decided to store her on the hard during the winter of 2012. I was in Texas on business when I got a call from my wife that a macroburst hit Cambridge and caused a number of boats to topple over like dominoes at the marina... Odyssey was in the middle of the dominoes. (A huge tree limb actually smashed into and broke the mast of the boat next to us causing the domino effect.)

My wife called the people who serviced our boat over the years to come take a look at it. They arrived the next day and took a lot of pictures and notes on what they could visually see that needed repair. When I arrived home, I went over every inch of the boat taking more pictures of every scratch and hairline crack (pic shows crack in rudder shaft housing). Even though the rudder was damaged and a hole punched in the hull from a jack stand had to be temporarily repaired, we decided to sail the boat across the Chesapeake and up to Annapolis where it could be hauled out and more thoroughly inspected by the service people who knew our boat. Eight months later and a new mast and rigging, new rudder, new rub rail, new stantions, lifelines, faired keel, some internal structural work and cosmetic fixes, we were back in the water. And, the boat feels sturdier and sails better now than it did before.

My recommendations: get someone who is familiar with your boat or who has maintained it to go over the boat along with a surveyor and the insurance adjuster (past owner and/or service people they've used). Take pictures of everything. Don't compromise if you, your service people or the surveyor feels something should be repaired or replaced... your safety is at risk when the boat goes back into the water. (The insurance company questioned the need to replace the mast and rigging on our boat. The pics showed the boat had crashed down on the starboard shroud and there was a lot of weight and stress transferred to the spreader. So, we asked them who would be liable if someone got killed should the mast fail. They soon decided it might be best to replace the mast.) Finally, have a surveyor go over the boat after all the repairs are made to ensure everything was done properly. It will also help should you decide to sell the boat in the future.

BTW: We went back to living aboard after the boat got splashed and promised Odyssey we would never put her on the hard again over the winter months.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:38   #22
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

So, as a greenhorn, I'm wondering... Who secured the boat on the stand in the yard? If the marina staff did, don't they hold some liability in this? If the owner did, well then it's moot (mute?) and never-mind...
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:20   #23
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Good advice all around. Your main priorities should be the soundness of the vessel and the rig, failure of which, in the future, could be catastrophic. Therefore:

1. Structural integrity of hull - stringers, tabs, bulkheads, potential core damage.
2. Rigging - complete inspection and replacement of anything amiss.
3. Watertight integrity - hull, throughhulls (fittings and connections).
4. Engine. - damage to, shifting on motor mounts, prop shaft and shaft log.

Make your own assessment of the damage. Have knowledgeable friends assist. BoatUS catastrophic claims team does a great job to get your claim moving. But they don't get everything. My boat was damaged in Sandy. I had to have surveyors back three separate times to ensure everything was uncovered and made it into the claim. And I needed to personally work with them to get it done. They're all good people, but they've got a jillion boat claims to deal with after Irma, and in their haste, they may make assumptions in lieu of hard knowledge about your boat that you may be able to provide. Plan to attend all damage surveys, ask questions about everything, don't be afraid to challenge assumptions or findings you think are questionable. They will work with you, if you work with them. No one wants to see you suffering off the coast because of a problem overlooked. Many times, damage is uncovered as repairs progress, possibly requiring additional surveys and inspections. This is normal in boat repair.

Good luck to you.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:41   #24
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

I saw a 50 foot Hinckley dropped four feet from the Travellift straps in Chicago in a paved yard. . . total loss.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:21   #25
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

I have seen a handful of boats that toppled. I have noticed the following major areas of damage:

1) the area where the hull hit the ground, obvious, damage visible outside and inside, ADJACENT structural support detached - ALSO on the opposite side (e.g. the other half of the nearest bulkhead,

2) other structural members delaminated (inside) - knees or floors, throughout, but most severely in the area about 5 ft each way from the impact point, on both sides of the hull; remove all liners, etc. and inspect everything.

3) Various secondary damage inside - batteries spilling acid, engine foot sheared, galley stove attached firmly to the nav table, etc. Momentum in action.

Depending on what the hull is all about and how it fell the impact area repair varies from very pro and difficult to easy and owner executable.

Make sure you inspect all internal structure - tabbing on all bulkheads, all knees and floors (if your boat has them, furniture tabbing, etc. I have seen most damage there.

A boat I have seen slide of a trailer had no damage to the rigging. The boat I have seen that toppled in a boatyard caught its mast against its neighbour's mast and there was damage to both, severe on the toppling one (mast bent).

You must see it to make an opinion though. It can be either just scratches, or a write off, or anything in between. Go get a look. Send us pictures, if this does not hurt too much.

I am very sorry about your misadventure. Sounds like you had plenty of good luck and some bad one. Hope the actual damage is minor and you can get her going very soon.

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Old 12-09-2017, 12:47   #26
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

I feel dismayed for you and your holdings.

I feel like the yard which took care of the dry stand is legally liable in full (as much as when a travel lift fails). They had the custody.

A yard of reputation subject to north Adriatic Bora (NE 7-9) regularly FASTENS standing boats onto large concrete blocks. No Kidding
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Old 12-09-2017, 14:04   #27
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Regardless of what the insurance tells you, get a surveyor and have a survey done yourself. I have been thru about 5 different hurricane issues with clients all over the US and over 10 different client damaged boats from Ike in Texas in 2008. In every case, the insurance wanted to pay off the owner, but never really evaluated the boat.

To the clients who listened, they had the boats surveyed and found way more damage than the insurance inspector/ appraiser found. In one case the boat was floating, heavily damaged and the inspector said it could be repaired. The owners surveyor found the grid system inside (a beneteau) was totally seperated from the hull in different places.

If they don't write you a check for full total covererage, get it surveyed.
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Old 12-09-2017, 14:30   #28
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Sorry for your loss. Not really every getting to use her is the worst part. You spent a lot of time and soul searching to decide to spring for the boat earlier than planned, and that's a lot of emotional equity.

When my adjuster for my motorcycle claim (total loss by Harvey), she said she had already seen several brand new cars and motorcycles that were totaled. Yours, in my opinion, is worse because of the length and effort put into to buying her.

God speed.
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Old 14-09-2017, 17:36   #29
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

Thank you all very, very much for the kind and thoughtful responses.

The adjuster plans to go see her tomorrow and we've delayed returning to Denver to deal with this.

We talked to the original surveyor and he is amenable to comparing the adjuster's report to his own.

I will post pics asap.

Again, thank you for taking the time to help us out. It truly means a great deal!!!
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Old 20-09-2017, 12:22   #30
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Re: Irma Knocked Our Dream Off Stands a Week After Purchase

It could have been worse...

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