Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

[sail50]

Checking to see what the prices are fro the 802s and found that some vendo ran out of stock and other have a few on hand?

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by sail50

Checking to see what the prices are fro the 802s and found that some vendo ran out of stock and other have a few on hand?

The Icom M802 is not in compliance with the FCC regulations.
So it's Illegal to sell them into the United States at the moment until either:
1. Icom gets a Waiver from the FCC
2. They change the tech specs of the Radio to make it in compliance with the FCC Regs.

Given Icom's hardheadedness I doubt there will be a fast resolution to the problem because it's a hardware fix, not a software fix needed to bring the radio into FCC Compliance.

[a64pilot]

When did that happen? I have an 802 awaiting install.
I had heard it was to be replaced with a new model?

[SV THIRD DAY]

It's been going on for about a year now...and Icom's solution was to just stop shipping/selling radios in the USA. Many of the Radios being sold now came from their Canadian distributers who shipped them to US Dealers who didn't want to lose a sale...well that is until the supply ran out and now there are none to be had.

(you learn things while standing around on a slow day at the Seattle Boat Show and talking to the former No 1 seller of the Icom M802s in the USA...well he was once anyway....)

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The Icom M802 is not in compliance with the FCC regulations.
So it's Illegal to sell them into the United States at the moment until either:
1. Icom gets a Waiver from the FCC
2. They change the tech specs of the Radio to make it in compliance with the FCC Regs.

Given Icom's hardheadedness I doubt there will be a fast resolution to the problem because it's a hardware fix, not a software fix needed to bring the radio into FCC Compliance.

===

What is the issue that needs to be fixed?

[gjorgensen]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

When did that happen? I have an 802 awaiting install.
I had heard it was to be replaced with a new model?

The FCC "reinterpreted" the rules, so the formerly compliant M802 was no longer compliant. The word is that Icom will shortly be announcing a return to the market for a modified M802 that's now compliant, which I've heard referred to as the M805 (no idea if that'll be the name though). The older M802 is just fine IMO.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by gjorgensen

The FCC "reinterpreted" the rules, so the formerly compliant M802 was no longer compliant. The word is that Icom will shortly be announcing a return to the market for a modified M802 that's now compliant, which I've heard referred to as the M805 (no idea if that'll be the name though). The older M802 is just fine IMO.

That's not exactly true....
The radio is out of FCC compliance because the rules for DSC emergency broadcast is 4 minutes and the M802 is 3 minutes 59 seconds...yep....so the FCC ruled it out of compliance, because by the book, it is and always has been. The FCC expected Icom to file for a waiver and even told them it would be granted but Icom is icom and pulled the radio off the US Market. "We will show those FCC Bueroctats, we are Icom"

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

That's not exactly true....
The radio is out of FCC compliance because the rules for DSC emergency broadcast is 4 minutes and the M802 is 3 minutes 59 seconds...yep....so the FCC ruled it out of compliance, because by the book, it is and always has been. The FCC expected Icom to file for a waiver and even told them it would be granted but Icom is icom and pulled the radio off the US Market. "We will show those FCC Bueroctats, we are Icom"

Rich, I thought you said it was a hardware fix required to meet spec. Surely changing the timeout period for the DSC would be software controlled, wouldn't it?

Jim

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Rich, I thought you said it was a hardware fix required to meet spec. Surely changing the timeout period for the DSC would be software controlled, wouldn't it?

Jim

An electronics guy I'm not...
According to Icom the fix requires a hardware change, which equals mo money...plus what do you do with all the radios that are now technically "Out of FCC compliance"...don't you smell a lawsuit for selling an out of compliance radio in the USA? This is when the lawyers take over the decision process and common sense goes out the window

[Lepke]

I don't know anything about the radio, but both Amazon and Ebay have new ones and Amazon has some used.
https://www.amazon.com/Icom-M802-Mar.../dp/B00197PXT6



ICOM M802 WITH DSC HF SSB MARINE RADIO BRAND NEW 2 YEAR OZ G'TEE IC-M802 | eBay

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I don't know anything about the radio, but both Amazon and Ebay have new ones and Amazon has some used.
https://www.amazon.com/Icom-M802-Mar.../dp/B00197PXT6



ICOM M802 WITH DSC HF SSB MARINE RADIO BRAND NEW 2 YEAR OZ G'TEE IC-M802 | eBay

Sure....they are still being made and shipped to Canada and around the world. So as you can tell by the price, some enterprising individuals are looking to capitalize on the popular radio's popularity and scarcity in the USA. An Icom dealer I know in the USA is buying all of his M802 radios through his Canadian contact to keep supplying customers...but at a $500 Price Adder!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Sure....they are still being made and shipped to Canada and around the world. So as you can tell by the price, some enterprising individuals are looking to capitalize on the popular radio's popularity and scarcity in the USA.

Here’s a listing at a well known Canadian radio retailer: https://radioworld.ca/ic-m802

… what an odd situation.

[btrayfors]

Two items of interest in the RadioWorld listing.

1. I assume all prices are in Canadian dollars. If so, the $2,399 price is about the same as the discounted U.S. price, i.e., just over $1,800 U.S.

2. The Product Description makes no mention whatsoever of DSC capability. Is this one of the "non-DSC" 802s such as can be found in, e.g., Singapore?

Bill

[Paul L]

This site indicates there is significantly more than 4min vs 3 min 59 secs timeout - although that does have a nice anti- bureaucracy ring to it.
ICOM DSC Radio Not Fully Compliant - CONTINUOUSWAVE

. ..we have identified the modifications required and confirmed that we have the
capability to update the firmware on the affected radios.

The main updates required are:

--changing the 4 hour NMEA data alert timer to 3 hour 59 minutes.

--adding a DSC elapsed time readout—The display must show a time since the radio received a DSC or a time since the last DSC was sent from this radio. It ranges from approximately 3.5 to 6 minutes.

--adding a DSC resending feature on all ship calls and individual calls—This is so radios can resend DSC alerts automatically at a timed interval.

Icom is preparing to make these firmware updates as soon as possible. However, because we are working with the FCC to get these problems resolved we do not currently have a timeframe when these updates will be released.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This site indicates there is significantly more than 4min vs 3 min 59 secs timeout - although that does have a nice anti- bureaucracy ring to it.
ICOM DSC Radio Not Fully Compliant - CONTINUOUSWAVE

Thanks for providing some more complete information. This is the same issue that halted sales of ICOM DSC VHFs last summer.

And just to cloud the issue with some more facts, the decree agreement between the FCC and ICOM required that Icom halt sales until the devices were brought into compliance. There was no thumbing their nose at anyone. It was part of the settlement, including a fine that ICOM paid. They openly admitted that they had misinterpreted the spec. It's all in the decree agreement which is public record.

What is unclear is whether ICOM has any obligation to update previously sold devices to bring them into compliance. I've certainly not seen any recall, or even an announcement of a new firmware release, even though there is one for the M506 VHF of which I have 3. And I have an M802 as well. I have updated my M506s, but it was an exercise in pulling teeth to get it done.