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Old 12-10-2013, 23:19   #16
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Originally Posted by JRM View Post
A lot depends on the sound you like. If you like the bright sound, the Klipsch satellites are great, and decently priced. The B&W "bookshelf" offerings are a bit pricey, but definitely warm. I personally prefer the Energy "Take 5" units. They're mostly used for home theater surrounds, but are a great compromise and value. I have 6 of them in my home theater (although the previous incarnations) and they match very well with the B&W mains. I've replaced everything in the theater over the years but them, as I've never found anything better for any reasonable price.

As far as a subwoofer, they can easily be built in to furniture if you plan them to be. There are lots of sites that can explain more, and software to help with port design and such.

BTW, if you plan to mostly play MP3s or any other lossy compression files, go cheap. It's sad when people pay all kinds of money for high end stuff and then play crap source material on it. It's your money, but there's no reason to waste it.
I completely agree with so much of what you said. Bose is overpriced. I had some of those Take 5s in my tiny studio apartment that was basically the size of a 40' sailboat saloon and they sounded amazing in there. Add a cheap subwoofer (I had a $99 Polk) and it's all you need. I giant sub will overpower the space. It's cool when the walls rattle, but you can't actually listen to anything for an extended period like that. I wouldn't put it inside a closet cabinet or anything though... you really need the air flow for it to work correctly. You can fit small subs just about anywhere though.

Also agree with the MP3 comment. Unless you're listening to high quality audio, you're defeating the point of a nicer stereo system.
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Old 13-10-2013, 00:46   #17
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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I hope this is a "Comms / AV" question and not an "Entertainment and Fun" question...

I'm thinking of upgrading the speakers in the saloon of my 12m sailing boat. The current 5" cheapo round automobile speakers are usually obscured by books. I want some little wall mounted speakers but I gather the bottom end on these things is lacking and the thing to do is add in a subwoofer, but not having experience in these things I don't know where best to position it.

I understand it does not need to be centrally positioned (just as well). But do these things need to be "exposed" or can I shove it away in a corner locker which has cushions on top? Pretty much the choices are under the saloon table, in the corner of the bookcase (at head height when sitting down) or in a corner locker (against a bulkhead and the hull but cusions on top of the locker).

What have people found works best?
You are 95% correct. A sub is omni-directional and as long is it has clear movement of air you can locate it almost anywhere. Yes, even in a very well vented locker- or even on the cabin roof. Just remember its about air flow. If the air cant flow the sound cant get out as well. So if its ports are covered by cushions or books it too will be affected.

For once in my life I will recommend the "gold plated" rca's should the salesman give you his spiel. Ignore what ever crap he says about connectivity and voltage drop and buy them only because they are less susceptible to corrosion.

Dont let them sell you jumbo cable though. Its BS and hype-just like gold plated rca's. There will be no measurable voltage drop on a small boat.

As for brand, that comes down to "bang for buck"- which is a term we use in the pro audio industry for best and clearest sound for the best all round price- taking into account expected lifespan of the equipment.

Boats generally don't need large audio systems as the volume of air in a cabin is usually smaller than most peoples living rooms so a smaller hifi will often suffice. Naturally there is the car audio solution too. Which is another can of worms with brands offering 1000 watt speakers which are deceptively sold by that measurement. As watts, in terms of speakers, really mean nothing when considering volume. Continuous and Peak DB is the only measure of a speakers ability to move air.

In the end, buy the system that "sounds" right to "you". Audio is subjective and one persons "too much bass" will be another persons "not enough bass"
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Old 13-10-2013, 00:48   #18
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
I completely agree with so much of what you said. Bose is overpriced. I had some of those Take 5s in my tiny studio apartment that was basically the size of a 40' sailboat saloon and they sounded amazing in there. Add a cheap subwoofer (I had a $99 Polk) and it's all you need. I giant sub will overpower the space. It's cool when the walls rattle, but you can't actually listen to anything for an extended period like that. I wouldn't put it inside a closet cabinet or anything though... you really need the air flow for it to work correctly. You can fit small subs just about anywhere though.

Also agree with the MP3 comment. Unless you're listening to high quality audio, you're defeating the point of a nicer stereo system.
Bose is only slightly over priced and I have never been fond of it in my day to day work. But for the average hifi system it more than suffices. One thing that comes with bose is the the ability to blow the crap out of the speakers and they will still provide support. I like that and they deserve cudos for it!
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Old 13-10-2013, 01:15   #19
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Snip

Also agree with the MP3 comment. Unless you're listening to high quality audio, you're defeating the point of a nicer stereo system.
Ditto. anyone downloading music directly from youtube or at any bit rate under 196 minimum may as well buy a stereo from kmart.
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:59   #20
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Dont let them sell you jumbo cable though. Its BS and hype-just like gold plated rca's. There will be no measurable voltage drop on a small boat.
That is correct.

My 1,400W main cockpit amplifier and my 400W subwoofer amplifiers are pushing sound to the speakers through 14 AWG speaker wire w/o problems.

THE best place for high-quality A/V cables is Monoprice. I use them all the time and am always satisfied.

The only place I use high-priced designer A/V cables is at work, for parametric measurement of audio, video or HDMI performance, so we can get every fractional dB on the measurement.
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Old 13-10-2013, 10:15   #21
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Originally Posted by wingless View Post
That is correct.

My 1,400W main cockpit amplifier and my 400W subwoofer amplifiers are pushing sound to the speakers through 14 AWG speaker wire w/o problems.
This indicates how silly these specifications are.
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Old 13-10-2013, 11:14   #22
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
Dont let them sell you jumbo cable though. Its BS and hype-just like gold plated rca's. There will be no measurable voltage drop on a small boat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
That is correct.

My 1,400W main cockpit amplifier and my 400W subwoofer amplifiers are pushing sound to the speakers through 14 AWG speaker wire w/o problems.
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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
This indicates how silly these specifications are.
Silly in which respect?

The speaker load for the 1,400W amplifier is 2 ohms per channel by two channels. The speaker load for the 400W amplifier is a single 6 ohm speaker.

The current for the main speakers is 19A, the current for the subwoofer is 8A.

A 14 AWG wire can handle that all day long.

The selling points to audiophiles for high-end speaker wire is the sound clarity. The Monster Cable speaker cable products are very nice components. I have used these cables at home. I don't see the point on the boat, w/ engine noise, wind noise, plus the strands are not tinned.
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Old 13-10-2013, 11:20   #23
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

I have a subwoofer installed under a (ventilated) settee. At low volume, we don't hear it much but can feel the beat thru our pants!!
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Old 13-10-2013, 13:00   #24
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

We have these used with a Pioneer car stereo and we've been very happy. There's a threaded hole in back that you can attach a mount to. Maybe you will be able to find a speaker that will fit the bill for you without the use of a sub.



Mirage OMD 5

with this mount:

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Old 13-10-2013, 13:04   #25
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

a few thoughts...

1. you might take a look at a bass tube as it might fit better into an available space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bass...a&channel=fflb

2. with 'car stereo' design, you need to think forward;
-if you buy component speakers (tweets, mids, subs) you will also need a cross over
-the more speakers the the more power you need (to get the sound u want) which means an amp
-amplified systems need 14 gauge wire
-some amps have huge power requirements
-you may want / need shielded wires
-amps get hot. very hot
-the acoustics of a boat may never produce the quality of sound you are looking for
-fuses blow and connections split... so you will need access to each inline fuse and connection
-subs vibrate and it is very common that they shake things (nuts and bolts) loose. while i doubt this applies to boats the same as a car, it should be kept in mind
-subs need an enclosure and proper amount of air flow to that sub

i would also encourage you to think about what your intended use of the sound system will be...

i have 3 channels...

v-berth, salon and cockpit.

v-berth and salon are just 'music' and the salon has all component speakers and surround because i stream movie audio from my computers thru the stereo.

-steve
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Old 13-10-2013, 13:50   #26
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

+1 on those Radio Shack Minimus speakers. They are absolutely fantastic especially for the price. The older ones are better. You might also try some ancient ADS ones. They are more than great. And Boston Acoustic. All these small speakers have big and very realistic sound for the price. I listened to all these without a sub for years. It might do. They all rock. I used to be a hardcore audiophile and these little bastards got rave reviews in their day.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:29   #27
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:44   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowshoes View Post
We have these used with a Pioneer car stereo and we've been very happy. There's a threaded hole in back that you can attach a mount to. Maybe you will be able to find a speaker that will fit the bill for you without the use of a sub.

Mirage OMD 5

with this mount:
Yay, Mirage! I love our Mirage speakers with their reflected sound technology; works especially well for accoustically challenged spaces like boats.

My subwoofer is custom build to fit hanging under the salon table. I use car amplifiers to drive the speakers and wifi streaming audio players as the source (i.e. like Sonos or AppleTV).
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Old 14-10-2013, 05:21   #29
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Re: Subwoofer positioning

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Silly in which respect?

The speaker load for the 1,400W amplifier is 2 ohms per channel by two channels. The speaker load for the 400W amplifier is a single 6 ohm speaker.

Snip
I assume he was referring to the 1400 watt spec. Most home hifi and car audio people are extremely creative with wattage specifications and rarely offer continuous and peak DB information on their speaker cabinets at point of sale.

Watts primarily mean nothing when considering how loud or efficient a speaker enclosure is going to be. Everything relates to DB and should generally be measured at 1mtr (Anechoic measurement). Some "creative" companies release DB information in "half space" which again is somewhat umm vague, as testing requires the speaker to be on its back pointing up at the sky (like we would do that at home- not). Plus it means the buyer is comparing apples with sardines :-D

That me being nice and not calling them B&LL$#itter$ :-D Its a bit like food companies that say something is fat free when ultimately its full of carbs instead. Baffle the mind with statistics and let emotions make the sale for ya :-D
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