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23-08-2018, 11:33
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fairfield Harbour, New Bern, NC
Boat: Down East 45 Brigantine schooner
Posts: 1,322
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Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
I plan to re-place all the separate and loose wires from my pedestal pod and engine instruments, to the electrical panel in my saloon. It is a distance of approximately 17 feet and there are 30 wires, all 12 volt.
Is there any reason why I can’t use a single multi core cable with 30 conductor wires? This will be a lot cheaper than buying separate wires, and easier to install? My present wires vary between 16 and 14 AWG. Which thickness will be best? 16 AWG is half the price of 14 AWG.
Thanks in advance. JR.
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Visit Britannia's website, containing published articles about some innovative things that have been done to the boat over the past twelve years.
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23-08-2018, 11:49
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 365
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
You'll need to go with the 14 gauge. You can upsize wires. Do not downsize.
I also doubt the bundle will be as flexible, do you have any tight corners to make?
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23-08-2018, 12:21
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 946
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Assuming you mean 12 volts to power devices
why not run 1 set of lower gauge wires between the panel and pedestal to a local fuse panel at the pedestal
then distribute from there?
Only one long run then a bunch of shorter ones
to each device or even a switched sub panel?
Cheers
Neil
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23-08-2018, 14:22
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fairfield Harbour, New Bern, NC
Boat: Down East 45 Brigantine schooner
Posts: 1,322
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Good points Pete. That's why I've just received a 12" sample, and it's flexible enough to go where I want. Using this cable I will be able to actually route the wire down through the inside of the pedestal - much neater.
Neil, I can do a common ground, but I still need a wire to the individual devices.
JR
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Visit Britannia's website, containing published articles about some innovative things that have been done to the boat over the past twelve years.
www.schooner-britannia.com.
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23-08-2018, 15:28
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Can can you replace 14AWG wire with 16AWG?
The answer is: It Depends. it is not a question anyone can possibly answer in any reasonable fashion with the information you have given us.
Assuming the original wires were installed with some idea as to why various sizes were used, you should be careful about changing them just because it is "convenient".
For EACH circuit in which you are planning to downsize the wire you need to address a couple of questions:
First question: How much current does the wire routinely carry, and for how far, and what voltage drop is to tolerated?
Second question: What is the over current protection for these various circuits? How does that compare to the ampacity of the wires used?
If you do not know, or can not find, the answer to those questions, you should keep the wire sizes the same.
And do not forget that the common ground you suggest will be carrying the amperage of ALL the circuits in your bundle. That might well need bigger wire.
Finally, the current rating for wires in a 30 wire bundle will be significantly downgraded compared to individual wires because they can not disipate heat nearly as easily.
This might seem like a simple, easy project, but there are a lot of important details to consider.
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23-08-2018, 15:36
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#6
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,241
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny
Can can you replace 14AWG wire with 16AWG?
The answer is: It Depends. it is not a question anyone can possibly answer in any reasonable fashion with the information you have given us.
Assuming the original wires were installed with some idea as to why various sizes were used, you should be careful about changing them just because it is "convenient".
For EACH circuit in which you are planning to downsize the wire you need to address a couple of questions:
First question: How much current does the wire routinely carry, and for how far, and what voltage drop is to tolerated?
Second question: What is the over current protection for these various circuits? How does that compare to the ampacity of the wires used?
If you do not know, or can not find, the answer to those questions, you should keep the wire sizes the same.
And do not forget that the common ground you suggest will be carrying the amperage of ALL the circuits in your bundle. That might well need bigger wire.
Finally, the current rating for wires in a 30 wire bundle will be significantly downgraded compared to individual wires because they can not disipate heat nearly as easily.
This might seem like a simple, easy project, but there are a lot of important details to consider.
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JR, this is the correct answer to your question. An excellent response from billknny, he has addressed all the salient points.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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23-08-2018, 16:09
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 946
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
JR
What i meant was to run both
a positive and negative cable, sized and fused appropriately,
to either a set of terminal strips ,switched
sub panel or a fuse block with a built in
negative buss bar.
You only need one circuit to the remote panel
and then branch circuits to the devices.
Of course everything has to be fused
and total draw with everything on calculated.
Cheers
Neil
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23-08-2018, 16:55
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,134
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger
Good points Pete. That's why I've just received a 12" sample, and it's flexible enough to go where I want. Using this cable I will be able to actually route the wire down through the inside of the pedestal - much neater.
Neil, I can do a common ground, but I still need a wire to the individual devices.
JR
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I'm finding it hard to imagine a 30x awg14 cable being manageable!! What is its diameter?
Jim
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Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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23-08-2018, 17:08
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
I’m trying to imagine how or why you need 30 different, separate circuits to the Nav pod? I can’t imagine that.
There were 14 CB’s on my original DC panel, I added 11 more on two other panels.
That means my entire boat is run off of 25 DC circuits, and they are all home runs, no sneaks.
Your Nav pod requires 30?
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23-08-2018, 17:26
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,563
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
It's probably only 15 pairs as you could measure 12v on all 30 wires Maybe a common ground would help.
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23-08-2018, 17:36
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Even 15 circuits is nuts, something else is going on. NMEA cables, something
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23-08-2018, 17:43
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,563
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
14ga NEMA wires? Maybe it needs a NEMA bus.
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23-08-2018, 18:22
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
I just can’t come up with a logical reason for 15 pairs of wires going to a Nav panel, even unused, dead wires 15 pairs is too many to make sense.
I wonder if he knows where each of the 15 pairs go?
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23-08-2018, 18:33
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 192
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
I have worked with a lot of 25 pair wire in the telecom world but most of that is 24 gauge. 14awg wires with 15+ pairs is going to be pretty big and as others have noted, Why do you need that many?
__________________
Gary
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24-08-2018, 01:14
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fairfield Harbour, New Bern, NC
Boat: Down East 45 Brigantine schooner
Posts: 1,322
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?
Thanks for everyone’s replies.
It’s all part of a major project to remodel the complete nav area. I’ve already removed the teak chart table, which I have for sale. I also want to move the breaker panel to a more convenient place and tidy up the wiring. You can see why from the picture.
I must confess the 30 wire number is an estimate and I haven’t yet worked out which of the pod instruments can be connected to a common ground, to reduce the numbers. There are also engine gages, mounted on the pedestal.
The diameter of the 37 conductor, 16 AWG cable I received as a sample is 1” inch and it’s quite flexible. It will easily bend round a 4” inch radius. I suspect I will finish up with less wires than 30, and 14 AWG.
I understand Billknny’s points and if I manage a common ground for some I will use a separate thicker wire.
I was also a bit concerned about heat dissipation and I’ll look at the amperage of the more continuous drain, like the nav lights which are 14 AWG.
I guess I really wanted to hear from anyone who has used this stuff, because it will be very much cheaper and easier to route a single cable, then to install individual wires, then tape them into a loom.
Here’s a link to the supplier. https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/14-AWG-SOOW/
__________________
Visit Britannia's website, containing published articles about some innovative things that have been done to the boat over the past twelve years.
www.schooner-britannia.com.
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