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Old 31-08-2018, 10:26   #46
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Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

While I used only tinned wire for any wiring I have added.
I’ll note that Island Packet didn’t when they built the boat 30 yrs ago, and the factory wire seems to be in excellent shape, no corrosion etc.
I’d say tinned where possible is preferable, but if it’s not tinned, it’s not a deal breaker.
I wonder how much NMEA 2000 cabling is tinned?
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Old 31-08-2018, 10:40   #47
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Oh man. 8 gauge wire carrying alternator current. Common ground. You had better read up on ABYC recommendations for wiring a boat. Get rid of your 8 gauge alternator wire, wire the alternator directly to the batteries, protected of course and use a shunt to provide charge current. Do not use a common ground. Every 12 volt circuit should be two wire and every cct. needs its own protection.

There are also guidelines (rules?) of how to de-rate wiring that is in a cable bundle.

There are some good books available on 12 volt systems. I recommend you get one or two.
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Old 31-08-2018, 11:56   #48
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Charlie-
Most of us are not going to pay the hundreds of dollars that ABYC wants to share their specs. Nor do we have any access to them, as libraries and other resources don't have them available to share either.
Since you obviously do have access to them, it might be more help to say "Does not meet ABYC specs because...." rather than to refer people to intentionally restricted documents.
FWIW.
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Old 31-08-2018, 11:56   #49
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Jolly Roger #43:
There is a whole set of specs for UL 1426 Boat Cable or SAE J378 or SAE 1127 or SAE 1128. There is no requirement to use tinned wire, although most installers will use it because it is just better. The easiest way to spec wire is to use UL 1426 made by ANCOR, Pacer, Cobra, etc. Geuninedealz.com has very good pricing on boat cable made by Pacer.

You really should consider the excellent advice to run appropriately sized conductors to a remote fuse or circuit breaker panel at your binnacle and power all of your equipment from there. Note that all electronics have an on/off switch so to provide a circuit breaker that can be switched on or off is redundant.

Do not use a common B- for your binnacle loads...too hard to troubleshoot.

As always; IYB.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:53   #50
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

I’ve found somewhere where I live which has 12 AWG tinned boat wire, but no 14 AWG. Is there any problem re-wiring circuits which are presently 16 AWG & 18 AWG, with all 12 AWG?
Thanks again. JR.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:33   #51
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
I’ve found somewhere where I live which has 12 AWG tinned boat wire, but no 14 AWG. Is there any problem re-wiring circuits which are presently 16 AWG & 18 AWG, with all 12 AWG?
Thanks again. JR.
Weight and bulk. Why bother greatly increasing the size and weight of what's installed by using stuff larger than necessary?

Don't let "convenience" overrule common sense.
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Old 07-09-2018, 13:40   #52
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Well I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but the difference in weight between 20 feet of 16 or 14 AWG and 12 is negligible for my 22 ton schooner.
I will write the question differently: Is their any electrical disadvantage in using a thicker wire gauge than that which is "normal" for any given load?
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Old 07-09-2018, 13:47   #53
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Roger-
Electrically, you would simply be called "more conservatively rated" if using 12AWG wire to replace circuits that previously were 16AWG or 18AWG. There will be no problems, electrically, except perhaps the wire terminations. You may find that if there are any "Euro" screw-down fittings, or any terminal fittings that were designed for small to medium wire, that the 12g wire physically won't fit unless you shave it down a bit. But if it fits, no problem at all.

Do note that AWG and SAE wire sizes are different. Roughly, 12-14AWG is the same size and capacity as 10SAE. The SAE sizes are all roughly one or two steps lower capacity than the "same" named AWG sizes.

And these days, practically all the lower priced wire coming in from china is quietly labeled "CCA" meaning it is copper clad aluminum--not all copper. CCA wires also are de-rated, about one or two gauge sizes.
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Old 07-09-2018, 14:06   #54
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Thanks Hellosailor.
Even though I wasn’t made in America, my boat was. But it does have a British sounding name, like me, (well Welsh actually).
So it’s fair to say all the original terminals, etc., will be American, and I haven’t had any problems with wiring I’ve already done—but thanks for mentioning it.
I didn’t think there would be any disadvantage in using a thicker wire, electrically speaking, but I couldn’t find the answer in any searches, hence my query.
I’m right in the thick of it now, having just had two days of hard labor dismantling "Stonehenge," which, speaking of weight, has lightened the boat on the port side by 150 Lbs. Photo attached.
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Old 07-09-2018, 14:44   #55
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
Well I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but the difference in weight between 20 feet of 16 or 14 AWG and 12 is negligible for my 22 ton schooner.
I will write the question differently: Is their any electrical disadvantage in using a thicker wire gauge than that which is "normal" for any given load?
Well, you started this thread with complaints about the mess. It would seem sensible that if you're going to "do it right" to use the correct gauges of wire. No thicker than necessary, calculated by length and load.

It is true that the longer you run a wire, the heavier the gauge necessary to avoid voltage drop. But it would be a good idea to know what the various sensors are supplying, and what the gauges all need. Plan that as part of the schematic.

To change from 16ga to 12ga you're looking at more than double the cross-sectional dimension. Think about how that will affect where the wire is pulled. Is there enough room to accommodate this unnecessary increase in diameter?
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Old 07-09-2018, 15:10   #56
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Roger-
I know there is a "British Standard Wire Gauge" but like Whitworth wrenches, I've never had to mess with it.
There is one downside. All things being equal, using 12g when the old wiring was 16g should literally double your cost for the wire, and with the price of tinned copper wire these days...it might be worth ordering what you really need, unless that's some huge bargain you have for the 12g. 12g versus 18g, an even greater price difference.
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Old 08-09-2018, 13:11   #57
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

The first thing to do is an electrical survey. All the devices you have, their rated current, and physical location.
Once you have this information you can determine if a subpanel in a remote location is appropriate.
You may also find, as I did, that there were a number of dead end wires that can just be pulled.

In summary, you can't start redesigning until you know what you have and what you want and where. Only than, can you draw up a schematic, which is the second essential part of this.
Don't start doing anything until you have surveyed, planned, and drawn up a schematic.
And if you're not comfortable with marine electrical systems, get some help or read up on it.

Planning ahead will make the job easier, and you will end up with results that you are pleased with.
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