Confused. Should I buy a Raymarine E7 chart plotter? or just stick with a IPAD??

[tejeda]

just a thought. I purchased a Symrad,BG chartplotter/radar installed and cost me about $5000 US. Had I known that the ipad could have done the charts for all S america total cost $625 approx. to hell with the chertplotter but do get a depth sounder.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by dnamron41

just a thought. I purchased a Symrad,BG chartplotter/radar installed and cost me about $5000 US. Had I known that the ipad could have done the charts for all S america total cost $625 approx. to hell with the chertplotter but do get a depth sounder.

There is now also a wifi Radar from Raymarine. I think both Furuno and Ray wifi radars will display wirelessly to iPads.

b.

[Privilege]

I too have a Raymarine e7 and an iPad but I'm still learning how to properly use them. I also have an autopilot integrated with the e7. When navigating with my e7, I can select a point on a map and press 'go to' and the chart plotter/autopilot does the rest. How does this work with the iPad if you are not using a chartplotter? Do you just give the autopilot a course and head off in that direction? Could this then lead to the possibility where your boat is blown sideways or gets in a current and although your course is the same, you are well off track?

[landonshaw]

Yes you can go off course. I have an auto pilot but it cannot be connected to my iPad. When I have been blown off course, it is either in a good storm and there is nothing I can do about it or it is only for a short time. Taking a look at the plotted course and making adjustments keeps everything good.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko

Seriously why do people s..tcan IPad Navigation and call it at best secondary or back up as opposed to say a Raymarine or some other well known brand.
As an electronic device they are not inferior in build or quality,battery life is not an issue especially if you keep it hooked into 12 v power via USB,GPS is a no brainer .The charts you can use are the same as far as I can see to those on dedicated plotters.Water proof ,vision in the sun etc are furphys that are easily over come or used in a boat like mine that is both dry and does not have the sun bashing down on the helm area.
I have several handheld GPS units and computers loaded with a couple of brands of electronic charts and a plotter that has combined Charting,Radar,Sonar,AIS,ttip data etc.
But in my opinion as far as acurate and very simple to use charting with the Navionics program plotting and following a route ,current speed ,course etc the
IPad is as acurate and dependable and far easier to use than the dedicated plotter.
Chris

iPads are tablets not chartplotters.

They are a mobile computing device.

They are not constructed for use in the marine environment.

That 3rd party software developers create electronic charting apps for them, does not make them a chartplotter.

Here are 10 great reasons why an iPad is not a chartplotter:

1. iPad is not sunlight viewable.
2. iPad does not warrant product against water intrusion.
2. iPad is not waterproof without 3rd party case.
4. iPad batteries don't last long while running GPS apps.
5. 3rd party cases are not waterproof when charger is plugged in.
6. iPad can "wander" for other purposes.
7. iPad physical design is fragile.
8. iPad is easily stolen from resting or mount location.
9. iPad is subject to "crash" from 3rd party apps not related to vessel operation.
10. iPad is not marine wired communications connectible without interface.

Here's an extra; touch screens are difficult to operate on a moving vessel, keeping one hand for the boat and the other for you.

Need any more? I can list another 10, easy, if desired.

While mobile computing and communicating devices are great for running chart apps when shaded from sunlight, and protected from rain and spray, for as long as the batteries last between recharges, they are certainly NOT a direct substitute for a proper chartplotter.

Major MFD manufactures provide free apps that enable one to view or control the MFD screen from the protection of the cabin via WIFI. (This is a great application for an iPad on a boat.)

Before flamers respond, I have been through this discussion several times before. Anyone can "justify" their decisions by whichever means they choose. We started out navigating by dead reckoning with paper chart, tennis ball on a string and a watch (for speed) and weight on the other end (for depth).

Is that the best way? No, it has some virtues, but is not best. Is an iPad best way? No, it too has some virtues but is not best. Is an MFD best way? IMHO, yes, it is designed for this specific purpose and extremely good at it.

[barnakiel]

I think that creating an arbitrary list, then proposing that anything that does not stick to the list is not a chartplotter, is a fallacy.

Looked up Webster and did not find a chartplotter definition.

You are free to make your own definitions and lists. But you are not morally free to ask others to stick to YOUR definition. This is not a church. This is a forum.

I am happy with my Apple Watch chartplotter. Other sailors may prefer other devices.

b.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I think that creating an arbitrary list, then proposing that anything that does not stick to the list is not a chartplotter, is a fallacy.

Looked up Webster and did not find a chartplotter definition.

You are free to make your own definitions and lists. But you are not morally free to ask others to stick to YOUR definition. This is not a church. This is a forum.

I am happy with my Apple Watch chartplotter. Other sailors may prefer other devices.

b.

The major marine manufacturers have created or adopted "chartplotter" and "MFD" to define their products. Apple does not refer to the "iPad" as a "chartplotter" or "MFD". Therefore, I believe using these defining terms to differentiate "chartplotters" from "iPads" is appropriate.

I believe listing points of justification to support one's opinion on a subject is very appropriate and useful to forum readers.

I think, broadcasting publicly to boaters of unknown experience that an "iPad" is as direct substitute for a "chartplotter", is very dangerous. (Anyone is free to disagree for whatever their reason, if any.)

Boaters attempting to minimize costs, may make poor decisions, if not presented with the points of reason against doing so.

To anyone who has made the decision to use an iPad instead of a chartplotter; we all make decisions regarding cost vs performance vs safety.

In my opinion, using an "iPad" as a direct substitute for a "chartplotter" is a significant safety compromise (for all reasons stated in post above, and more).

Furthermore, when one considers the cost of GPS chip option, the waterproof case, and the 3 year water intrusion replacement warranty (for which I just paid $C150, $C150, and $C600 respectively, just last week, the "iPad" really doesn't represent any cost savings over a "chartplotter" or "MFD" (which includes these features for no additional charge).

[tkeithlu]

The situation is rather different with an enclosed wheelhouse. Then a laptop with OPN, a monitor in front of the wheel, being able to incorporate a wide variety of charts and formats, and owning several back-ups normally used for wifi or other tasks for the price of one chartplotter make the computer route much more attractive. It also helps if you don't feel the need to integrate chartplotting, depth, radar, and AIS on one screen, or even prefer to keep them separate so you don't lose the whole suite when one screen goes ping. In an open cockpit, no way.

[barnakiel]

I think since a vast portion of the sailing world call a tablet with chartplotting software on it a chartplotter, there is no need to tell them they are wrong.

Googling youtube for "iPad Chartplotters" returns this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV9gJ4mo9BE

I think, broadcasting publicly to boaters of unknown experience that something is very dangerous asks for some sort of proof. Like say showing that sailors with iPad chartplotters create more accidents than sailors who use far more expensive devices manufactured by other companies.

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.

As one of those sailors who "minimise costs and who may make poor decisions" I can only say that they may also make good decisions.

If we were to measure our decisions with the price of the equipment we resolved to use, all rich people would make great sailors and many sailors would be fools. I do not find this to be the case.


To anyone who has not yet decided what kind of chartplotter they need I can only say look at how you use your devices, what you want from them, then buy the best tool for the job. To some of us it will be a waterproof smartphone, to others it will be another device.

I will close with Elaine Bunting's words:

"... Several people have asked if I’m mad using an iPad for navigation at all. Is it really sensible as a standalone device?

My answer is no, it’s not mad, and yes it is potentially a valuable standalone device.


(...)


These mobile chartplotters definitely have a place,

(...)"

(quote attribution: Testing iPad charts)

Cheers,
b.

[Kenomac]

Ramblinrod,

We've discussed this before, so no need for a repeat anti ipad performance.

We rely on three ipads and an iphone 6 for chartplotting. We also have a Garmin 521 which is now only used to display the AIS list. Everything else is broadcast via wifi coming from the Vesper Watchmate Vision, where we can navigate from behind the helm, in the galley, in the head, anywhere we like. The only device that doesn't like to play nice with the others is the Garmin where one set of charts covering just Eastern Italy costs over $200. Chart sets for the entire Mediterranean can be had for the ipads for about $80.

Electronic devices have come a long way..... Change is good.

[ramblinrod]

Sorry, that video is kinda ridiculous in my opinion.

Nowhere does he discuss that the device in his hand is not shockproof, not waterproof, and just look at the difference in the display brightness compared to the chartplotter at the nav station right beside it.

I would never suggest that an iPad running charting software is not a great tool. (As indicated in other threads, I have been using Navionics on iPhones for a long time, and as indicated above, just bought an iPad for this purpose.)

Nonetheless, I would never recommend using an iPad INSTEAD of a chartplotter.

I don't believe that I have suggested in anyway that electronics aren't advancing rapidly and change is bad. (I am an electronic engineering technician, and well aware of the depth and reliability of advances, probably moreso than most.)

Its just that an iPad is not a viable direct substitute for a chartplotter (IMHO), and one asking for assistance differentiating (original poster) should know the differences, which is exactly what I posted.

If you don't like the truth because it doesn't support your own decisions, that's fine, but it is still the truth.

If any one of the 10 (actually 11) points I listed above is not true, please advise how so? If you can't do so, then I think they stand on their own merit, and are valuable considerations in making this type of decision.

[Kenomac]

Shockproof, waterproof cases for ipads have been available for over three years now. Lifeproof and Aricase are two that we use which are excellent.

[ramblinrod]

Yes, as mentioned above you can cover a fragile, moisture sensitive iPad with a 3rd party case. I just bought one. iPad Air 2 with LTE and GPS = c$700. Lifeproof Nuud (that makes the back camera inoperative) = C$150. 3 year iPad warranty against shock or water damage = C$600. Navionics Usa and Canada = C$26. Mount (haven't researched yet) let's say C$100. Grand total = C$1575.

For a Raymarine E7 with Wifi and Navionics + for USA and Canada = $C1399.99

Yes the iPad can be used for other things, then again the chartplotter is dedicated and always available to navigate the boat.

Yes the iPad screen is larger, but then again the chartplotter screen is usable in bright sunlight.

Yes the chartplotter can communicate with other marine instruments, autopilots, etc. over a wired, dedicated, marine communications network and the iiPad can't.

Yes the chartplotter is permanently connected to the boat 12Vdc system, and the iPad is not and is not even waterproof in the life proof Nuud case when being recharged.

So, in my opinion an iPad is a great tool to have aboard, but not a viable direct substitute for a proper chartplotter. Can it be done? Of course. As mentioned prior one can navigate with a paper chart, compass, tennis ball on string, and watch; it's simply not as good.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yes, as mentioned above you can cover a fragile, moisture sensitive iPad with a 3rd party case. I just bought one. iPad Air 2 with LTE and GPS = c$700. Lifeproof Nuud (that makes the back camera inoperative) = C$150. 3 year iPad warranty against shock or water damage = C$600. Navionics Usa and Canada = C$26. Mount (haven't researched yet) let's say C$100. Grand total = C$1575.

For a Raymarine E7 with Wifi and Navionics + for USA and Canada = $C1399.99

Yes the iPad can be used for other things, then again the chartplotter is dedicated and always available to navigate the boat.

Yes the iPad screen is larger, but then again the chartplotter screen is usable in bright sunlight.

Yes the chartplotter can communicate with other marine instruments, autopilots, etc. over a wired, dedicated, marine communications network and the iiPad can't.

Yes the chartplotter is permanently connected to the boat 12Vdc system, and the iPad is not and is not even waterproof in the life proof Nuud case when being recharged.

So, in my opinion an iPad is a great tool to have aboard, but not a viable direct substitute for a proper chartplotter. Can it be done? Of course. As mentioned prior one can navigate with a paper chart, compass, tennis ball on string, and watch; it's simply not as good.

Pictured:

Original Ipad 1 Total cost today $75-$100

Aricase waterproof shockproof ipad case: $15 new on ebay

Inavx app: $50

Charts: less than $100 for entire Mediterranean. Free for entire US waters.

Total cost: $-165-$265 or less

Photo taken using an ipad air inclosed in a Lifeproof nuud case 10 minutes ago.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Pictured:

Original Ipad 1 Total cost today $75-$100

Aricase waterproof shockproof ipad case: $15 new on ebay

Inavx app: $50

Charts: less than $100 for entire Mediterranean. Free for entire US waters.

Total cost: $-165-$265 or less

Photo taken using an ipad air inclosed in a Lifeproof nuud case 10 minutes ago.

Lets see a photo of it on a bright sunny day in the direct sunlight or even worse when there is light cloud cover so there is no direction you can shade it.

My first summer was using an iPad and it was rubbish to see.

Better to have a MFD designed for sailing conditions in an open cockpit.