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Old 12-12-2012, 09:20   #31
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
One of my jobs in summer is to provide my wife with the perfect G&T "slushy". This requires precise timing, depending on ambient temperature etc the exact time for the tonic in the freezer is critical. The Tonic has to start just freezing. Pick the right time and the Tonic goes slushy. Too long and the tonic turns to ice, which is not acceptable , or worse still the can explodes
Gosh. And I thought Wonderblond was fussy insisting I cut up a lime for her GnT.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:28   #32
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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I think there is a fine, but distinct, line between dreaming with reality in mind and dreaming without. I admire people that are self-reliant and out there 'doing it'. But perhaps the majority of dreamers are not - there are a lot of silly people out there who have no business being there and who are a hazard to themselves and often to others, and quite often require others to bail them out of the mess they got themselves into. So I look up to some dreamers and down on others.


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Here on Earth, as well the land as the sea belongs to everybody. Maybe on your Planet you have your own ocean, sorry here we split with everybody, this means they not all have your standards. Thanks God for that.

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:31   #33
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

I'm still dreaming of a boat. I can respect those that leave with little. I know it's not really for me, but I can respect those that do.

However, I don't think I could live with myself if I just sailed off, leaving unpaid bills behind me where ever I went. It's one thing to be self reliant and have a pioneering spirit. It's another thing to agree to pay for services, and then default on the debt. Or for that matter, not have a plan for what to do if my boat sinks out from under me in the middle of some channel. (Even if I've taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen, I STILL have to plan for the chance that it might.) I'd have to have some sort of a plan to pay to have it removed simply so I don't damage other people's boats.

I think idiots give libertarians a bad wrap. Any of the stuff I've read by libertarian thinkers and writers says that people should be protected from the actions of other people. The questions just come about in how that protection is to be accomplished, and who has the justification to do what about it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:42   #34
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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However, I don't think I could live with myself if I just sailed off, leaving unpaid bills behind me where ever I went. It's one thing to be self reliant and have a pioneering spirit. It's another thing to agree to pay for services, and then default on the debt.
Good on you for feeling that way, but I'm a lot more blunt; I call that stealing.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:51   #35
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Good on you for feeling that way, but I'm a lot more blunt; I call that stealing.
Agreed that that is a perfectly descriptive and appropriate word. And I would agree that this would fall exactly under the term "thievery". I was trying to phrase it less aggressively, since the man described in the original post was likely unable to pay his bill. And I've never found direct terms very persuasive. Satisfying yes. But persuasive to convince another party that I'm right, never.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:54   #36
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

I was anchored in Cat Harbor on Catalina a few years back duing a cruise to Mex from SF, timing our arrival to and departure from SD to be just behind the Ha Ha. My wife and I were returning to our spartan Taran 30, 'Ducksoup', after having coffee mid-morning with friends on another boat. We were crossing the anchorage in our 9' dingy powered by a 3.5 horse Nissan. A mid 30 foot Sea Ray was entering the harbor slowly. As we approached converging courses, I had the right of way, except, I genrally yield, being the smaller boat. As I slowed, so did the Sea Ray, until we were both stopped along side. The woman at the helm, waed to me and asked, "Where is the marina?" My wife and I gave each other a puzzled look, not knowing how to answer. I told her where she was, that there was no marina here. The woman noticed took exception to our attempt at snide amusement at her expense. She said that she was just trying deliver the Sea Ray to Marina Del Rey om San Francisco. I smiled, pointed directly at the island and said, "You got very close, only 26 more miles that way." Her response was, "Oh, go out, turn right and turn right?" I smiled and nodded. She turned around and proceeded to go out, turn right and turn right to Marina Del Rey. To her credit, she did not create a wake, waiting until she was way clear of the anchorage. We were kind of bewldered. She missed the entire west coast, that she had paralleled all the way from SF, but found the tiny entance to Cat Harbor, on the south side of Catalina Island.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:55   #37
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
I'm still dreaming of a boat. I can respect those that leave with little. I know it's not really for me, but I can respect those that do.

However, I don't think I could live with myself if I just sailed off, leaving unpaid bills behind me where ever I went. It's one thing to be self reliant and have a pioneering spirit. It's another thing to agree to pay for services, and then default on the debt. Or for that matter, not have a plan for what to do if my boat sinks out from under me in the middle of some channel. (Even if I've taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen, I STILL have to plan for the chance that it might.) I'd have to have some sort of a plan to pay to have it removed simply so I don't damage other people's boats.

I think idiots give libertarians a bad wrap. Any of the stuff I've read by libertarian thinkers and writers says that people should be protected from the actions of other people. The questions just come about in how that protection is to be accomplished, and who has the justification to do what about it.


Agreed. But I would like to also add, that I don't respect dreamers who set off to pursue their ambitions whilst sponging off others for assistance and financial resources. There's a lot of that happening here in the USA at present.

Last year in Dana Point, we witnessed first hand some of those "dreamers," you know, the kind of guys who've never held down a job and continue to collect public assistance full time, grilling up some juicy looking steaks and sucking down some cold ones while tied up at the 2 hour public dock. 'Just saying...it's pretty easy to be a bum in America these days.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:56   #38
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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I met a guy in Turtle Bay who has terminal cancer. He and his wife agreed to drain their meager savings, he flew to Sacramento and bought a small Catalina, and sailed it out SF Bay not knowing anything. He hand steered from SF to SD with a tiller. When he got exhausted he'd just bob up and down in the swell and sleep. Also ripped the diesel out and did the outboard trick. There's a million things wrong with his boat. He puts up both jibs at once (hanked on) by interlacing them on the stay (mainly a downwind ride for him).

This guy wasn't doing anything bad to the local community and it's not like he's going to live long anyway.

He "sets" his anchor by throwing the entire mess of chain and danforth-knockoff out over the bow, then calls it good.

There's a guy at my old marina who always tells people about **** they need to do on their boat or else it's not safe or whatever, and I kind of laughed realizing that mr. "do it the right way" is still sitting at the marina and the guy who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground is pounding out serious mileage.

Here's a picture of the guy with cancer by the way. I had Thanksgiving with him and a few others in Turtle Bay (Baja coast) this year:

RandyonR3 helped this guy out in Oxbow, Ca. at his canvas shop for a few days. Randy was worried about the guy and his lack of sailing knowledge. He had called Randy, distressed about being so tired with no means of an autopilot. Randy tried to encourage him. I'm glad to see he has made it that far.
Faced with what he's going through, I admire his attitude.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:09   #39
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Perhaps he is happy.
If he is, he gets my vote to continue doing as he chooses.
I say let him be, but if his wreck of a boat drags down on my yacht I'm suing him for everything he's got!
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:39   #40
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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I say let him be, but if his wreck of a boat drags down on my yacht I'm suing him for everything he's got!
Problem is that "everything he's got" probably isn't worth a whole lot. Nor is it likely that a "wreck of a boat" carries insurance.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:40   #41
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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I say let him be, but if his wreck of a boat drags down on my yacht I'm suing him for everything he's got!
Actually in the US anyway, some assets are protected from collection by civil laws. Assets protected in bankruptcy are also protected from other civil tort actions.

So in reality, you can't sue someone for everything. Someone with very little, like the guy discussed by the OP, can't be collected on. Google judgement proof... BTW Judgement proof is a misnomer, as you can get a judgement, but collection can be a problem when going after those as the lower end of the food chain.

Just FYI.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:55   #42
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Problem is that "everything he's got" probably isn't worth a whole lot. Nor is it likely that a "wreck of a boat" carries insurance.
It was meant to be a joke!

Yeah, I was amazed to learn that just because you win a lawsuit, that doesnt mean the loser necessarily is forced to pay! Some just dont pay and suffer no consequences....
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:08   #43
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

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Welcome on Earth, from what Planet do you come?

Here on Earth, as well the land as the sea belongs to everybody. Maybe on your Planet you have your own ocean, sorry here we split with everybody, this means they not all have your standards. Thanks God for that.

CeesH
Cees, I think you should be brushing up on your reading skills. Because you clearly are not getting my message. Like I said, I admire people that go out there and everyone is free to do so. But I take exception to people that in the course of doing that cause others to risk life and limb when this could have been avoided. Example: people that are not good enough mountaineers that pay expert guides to try and tackle Everest, and in the cause of events cause the guides to risk life (and sometimes losing their life) to save them. They should not have been up there, or if they must, they should not have been relying on others to help them - let nature take its course.

Read Into Thin Air, perhaps you will catch my drift.

Same for boats - if you want to cross the ocean on an inflatable bed, fine with me. But don't set off the EPRIB expecting a helicopter when it all goes wrong. Then you have no business being there. Everyone has a duty to take precautionary measures that prevent things going wrong within reason, before asking others to bail them out.

We are supposed to be all responsible for our own actions and decisions, Cees. So deal with the consequences! Welcome to Earth.


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Old 12-12-2012, 11:13   #44
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

larryb's response triggered a memory of many years ago commercial fishing on the southern BC coast. One of my deckmates and I were sitting on the net of our table seiner drinking beers on a Sunday morning when a beautiful 50 foot sailboat entered the small harbor carrying an American flag (unusual in those days, late 50's early 60's). She stopped mid channel and the woman on the helm (again, unusual in those days) began waving at us with both arms over her head. We dropped the skiff down and motored out to her finding her and another couple in a high level of distress. Evidently she and her husband, who I take it was the competent sailor, had chartered this yacht along with the other couple, also novices, but he had been rushed to hospital with appendicitis shortly after they had embarked on their week long cruise. He had insisted that they continue and he would catch up with them later by sea plane. No one aboard had a clue how to navigate, read a chart and could barely drive the boat. He had been the primary charterer and had demonstrated through his experience and, I take it, courses he had completed that he was competent to handle a boat of that size according to his wife. They had not wanted to lose the charter fee which was considerable so agreed to meet the husband at a predetermined location many miles from where they met up with us.
I went aboard, took the helm and brough the boat in to the Government dock. Upon checking the fuel levels found she was down to just a few gallons, had heaps of water, provisions and booze. We located a pay phone (no cell phones in those days) and got ahold of the charter company who flew up a skipper to take command of the their boat.
We left to go fishing later in the day but I've often wondered about the conversation that occurred when the company skipper arrived to take the boat back to the US.
This sure falls in to the WTF were they thinking category... cheers, Phil
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:21   #45
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Re: The WTF are they thinking thread

God help me, i'm doomed!!! My present TriMaran looks like a Garbage scow,(traded my Tri in San Fransisco for one in San Diego) compared to my old Sea Runner, and looking at the fellows boat in question, his looks like the QE2 compared to mine, and you all SH*t all over him????
While i try to accomplish my dream on a shoe string, i would advise you, Who would deny me the opportunity to learn in my own way, to stay the hell outa my way.
And we will all get along just fine.
Oh,,by the way,,,I pay for what i have, and what i use,and i give what i can to those who fare less well than i, So put that in your pipe and smoke it !!! :-)
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