New adventure at 70

[jhughes]

Originally Posted by misfits

Good choice, I've got a 1980 28'. It's a joy to sail & can be easliy handeled by one person.
With the mainsheet at the end of the boom it's like sailing a dingy

Although I've owned 11 boats through out my lifetime, this is my first sailboat. I'll be 64 when she goes back into the water this season & with any luck I'll be able to sail her for many years to come.

Happy New Year everyone!

Feedback on single hand set-up; I'm thinking all lines back to cockpit of course and an auto-helm? Anything else?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by jhughes

Feedback on single hand set-up; I'm thinking all lines back to cockpit of course and an auto-helm? Anything else?

Yep, I'd only add a self-steering vane. But if you aren't going too far you could hold off on the extra gear for a while. I don't have very long trips where I am and I'll often have the boat self-steer by tying off the tiller and adjusting the sails, or a la methods shown by John Letcher in his book "Self Steering for Sailing Craft," while I make lunch or take care of something. His book is a handy reference: https://www.amazon.com/Self-Steering...s=john+Letcher
Many folks primarily use a self-steering vane most of the time they are offshore.

[jhughes]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yep, I'd only add a self-steering vane. But if you aren't going too far you could hold off on the extra gear for a while. I don't have very long trips where I am and I'll often have the boat self-steer by tying off the tiller and adjusting the sails, or a la methods shown by John Letcher in his book "Self Steering for Sailing Craft," while I make lunch or take care of something. His book is a handy refernce: https://www.amazon.com/Self-Steering...s=john+letcher
Many folks primarily use a self-steering vane most of the time they are offshore.

Self steering; tiller vs. wheel? Thanks DL

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by jhughes

Self steering; tiller vs. wheel? Thanks DL

Well, I only have experience with self-steering, and vanes, on a tiller, and those work really well. I also used to sail with a friend (40 years ago) who had the old-style QME vane that had a blade that translated changes in wind direction to the tiller and even that worked very well, except downwind. Personally I prefer the simplicity and direct control with a tiller. The downside is that it can dominate the space in the cockpit while sailing, but once anchored the tiller is up and out of the way. Tillers definitely lend themselves to vane steering well.

[jhughes]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, I only have experience with self-steering, and vanes, on a tiller, and those work really well. I also used to sail with a friend (40 years ago) who had the old-style QME vane that had a blade that translated changes in wind direction to the tiller and even that worked very well, except downwind. Personally I prefer the simplicity and direct control with a tiller. The downside is that it can dominate the space in the cockpit while sailing, but once anchored the tiller is up and out of the way. Tillers definitely lend themselves to vane steering well.

Thank you again my new found friend. Fair winds and a Happy Healthy New Year to you.

[TrentePieds]

Like Don CL I am an unrconstructed tiller man. I small toy ships like the ones we sail, wheels are a mere affectation that has entered our lives because a half century ago, all of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and 'Arry, had to be a sailor, and all these noobs knew about sailing was what they THOT they knew from driving cars, and what the pitchmen writing for the glossy mags and working for the dealers/brokers told them. Wheels have their merits, but NOT until the displacement, and therefore the forces, grow so large that we puny superannuated Sunday sailors can no longer meet them. That, in modern yachts, tends to become a reality somewhere north of 70 feet and 40 tons displacement.

In boats the size you are contemplating, and that I sail these days, a tiller is much to be preferred. A wheel with its pedestal takes up an unconscionable amount of real estate in a cockpit that is already on the small side for sundowners. And surely our purpose of going crusiing is to have our sundowners in places that aren't overrun by them what still think they are driving a car as they enter the anchorage? So have a tiller – it swings up out of the way and slips into a becket on the backstay so it will STAY out of the way while you are enjoying life. Remember that you will spend MORE time lazing about “on the back porch” than you will making like a tea-clipper rounding the Cape!

When you are underway, the tiller affords a sensitivity and feedback that no hardware-encumbered wheel ever can. You DON'T sail a boat in the manner you drive a car! You trim the boat so it basically steers itself. Then you relax and LET the boat steer itself. That done, two digits placed lightly on the tiller is all it takes to command the boat, and the gentle hum and vibration the boat communicates to your fingertips is what tells you that the boat is “in the grove”, and that you, as OOW, have done your job correctly in all respects. If the boat won't give you that delightful hum, it's because you haven't a) trimmed your sails correctly (yet) or b) you are wearing the wrong canvas for the conditions. Wheel steering in small boats is the henchman of sloppy sailing.

That a tiller impedes the crew's work in the cockpit is simply NOT true in any tiller steered boat that I have ever sailed. If the crew falls all over itself and the tiller – not to mention you – it's because the crew hasn't been properly trained – by YOU! For the cruising man in a thirty-footer there really isn't any need for sheet winches at all. TrentePieds has a total of 400 square feet of sail. Despite my antiquity and the fact that I was never the brawniest of blokes I can STILL handle 400 feet in ONE piece of canvas, e.g. I can still reef a 400 foot main in 20 knots of wind. The 100% headsl in TP is 200 feet. Coming about and trimming the headsl to the new tack is a mere matter of TIMING. There is no brawn, and consequently no winches, required. In consequence, there is no crew required. MyBeloved is a dozen years younger than I but not physically strong. She is not enamoured of pull-ye-haul-ye despite the health benefits it confers (when engaged in in moderation), so why bother her with it? It'll be a frosty Friday I can't single-hand a thirty foot sloop just by proper trim and proper timing. Provided she's tiller steered. Wheel steered is a different proposition because of that damnable pedestal that gets in your way all the time.

As for lines led to the cockpit. By all means. Just remember that for every turning block and fairlead you put in the run, you need to apply something like twice the strength to your pull-ye-haul-ye. Put three turns in the run, and all of a sudden you need maybe eight times the pull a line with no turns in it requires. Life is a lot easier if you can avoid those sorts of complications. That is best done by emulating the men of old. For MOST Sunday sailors in a thirty or forty year old sloop, there is absolutely no need to be afraid of going to the mast to hoist and to strike sail. Safety is a question of technique and situational awareness. If you intend to go off soundings, other criteria apply. Provided the main has slides that ship on a track, and provided the headsl is a “hank on”, life is a piecacake, and you are spared the potential problems roller furling sails WILL visit upon you.

Well – don't get me started ;-0)!

TP

[jhughes]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Like Don CL I am an unrconstructed tiller man. I small toy ships like the ones we sail, wheels are a mere affectation that has entered our lives because a half century ago, all of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and 'Arry, had to be a sailor, and all these noobs knew about sailing was what they THOT they knew from driving cars, and what the pitchmen writing for the glossy mags and working for the dealers/brokers told them. Wheels have their merits, but NOT until the displacement, and therefore the forces, grow so large that we puny superannuated Sunday sailors can no longer meet them. That, in modern yachts, tends to become a reality somewhere north of 70 feet and 40 tons displacement.

In boats the size you are contemplating, and that I sail these days, a tiller is much to be preferred. A wheel with its pedestal takes up an unconscionable amount of real estate in a cockpit that is already on the small side for sundowners. And surely our purpose of going crusiing is to have our sundowners in places that aren't overrun by them what still think they are driving a car as they enter the anchorage? So have a tiller – it swings up out of the way and slips into a becket on the backstay so it will STAY out of the way while you are enjoying life. Remember that you will spend MORE time lazing about “on the back porch” than you will making like a tea-clipper rounding the Cape!

When you are underway, the tiller affords a sensitivity and feedback that no hardware-encumbered wheel ever can. You DON'T sail a boat in the manner you drive a car! You trim the boat so it basically steers itself. Then you relax and LET the boat steer itself. That done, two digits placed lightly on the tiller is all it takes to command the boat, and the gentle hum and vibration the boat communicates to your fingertips is what tells you that the boat is “in the grove”, and that you, as OOW, have done your job correctly in all respects. If the boat won't give you that delightful hum, it's because you haven't a) trimmed your sails correctly (yet) or b) you are wearing the wrong canvas for the conditions. Wheel steering in small boats is the henchman of sloppy sailing.

That a tiller impedes the crew's work in the cockpit is simply NOT true in any tiller steered boat that I have ever sailed. If the crew falls all over itself and the tiller – not to mention you – it's because the crew hasn't been properly trained – by YOU! For the cruising man in a thirty-footer there really isn't any need for sheet winches at all. TrentePieds has a total of 400 square feet of sail. Despite my antiquity and the fact that I was never the brawniest of blokes I can STILL handle 400 feet in ONE piece of canvas, e.g. I can still reef a 400 foot main in 20 knots of wind. The 100% headsl in TP is 200 feet. Coming about and trimming the headsl to the new tack is a mere matter of TIMING. There is no brawn, and consequently no winches, required. In consequence, there is no crew required. MyBeloved is a dozen years younger than I but not physically strong. She is not enamoured of pull-ye-haul-ye despite the health benefits it confers (when engaged in in moderation), so why bother her with it? It'll be a frosty Friday I can't single-hand a thirty foot sloop just by proper trim and proper timing. Provided she's tiller steered. Wheel steered is a different proposition because of that damnable pedestal that gets in your way all the time.

As for lines led to the cockpit. By all means. Just remember that for every turning block and fairlead you put in the run, you need to apply something like twice the strength to your pull-ye-haul-ye. Put three turns in the run, and all of a sudden you need maybe eight times the pull a line with no turns in it requires. Life is a lot easier if you can avoid those sorts of complications. That is best done by emulating the men of old. For MOST Sunday sailors in a thirty or forty year old sloop, there is absolutely no need to be afraid of going to the mast to hoist and to strike sail. Safety is a question of technique and situational awareness. If you intend to go off soundings, other criteria apply. Provided the main has slides that ship on a track, and provided the headsl is a “hank on”, life is a piecacake, and you are spared the potential problems roller furling sails WILL visit upon you.

Well – don't get me started ;-0)!

TP

Sounds as if I hit a nerve, and a good one it was. Thank You for expressing the skill and spirit of a true seaman. I'll take a look at how I might change out wheel for tiller on the Sabre 30 I'm considering. Thank You TP.

[Don C L]

If you have found a good deal on a Sabre 30 in good condition I'd certainly encourage you to consider it and not worry about the wheel, or consider it a deal-breaker. It appears that the wheel can be easily replaced by a tiller in the Sabre if you choose to, judging by the design. This manual may be of help:
https://www.sailnow.com/sail/gifs/Sa...ers_Manual.pdf
check p. 53

[scotty c-m]

I'm also 70. Sailing a 40' Catalina. Good luck to you.

[misfits]

Originally Posted by jhughes

Feedback on single hand set-up; I'm thinking all lines back to cockpit of course and an auto-helm? Anything else?

The only sheets lead aft are the headsail & furler. With end boom sheeting the traveler is mounted on the transom coaming. My boat has a wheel but all the sheets are within an arms reach. I left the mainsail halyard at the mast. I can hoist it without needing to grind a winch which would not be the case if it was lead back to the cockpit as explained by T.P.

No autopilot or vane. Although an autopilot would be nice, I can't justify spending the $$ for the type of sailing I do. Once I have the boat balanced I can lock the wheel for those moments I need to head down below. I am thinking of messing around with sheet to wheel steering this year. If it works 50% of the time, good enough.

I feel very blessed, I have a mooring on mid coast Maine. During the summer another island anchorage is just a few miles away. I'm not putting 100 miles under the keel to arrive in nervana cause I'm already there.

[Scout 30]

Tillers are great for anyone new to boating because they teach you that you are steering the stern of the boat instead of the bow. People that start with wheel steering instinctively drive boats like cars because that's what they are used to.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by misfits

The only sheets lead aft are the headsail & furler. With end boom sheeting the traveler is mounted on the transom coaming. My boat has a wheel but all the sheets are within an arms reach. I left the mainsail halyard at the mast. I can hoist it without needing to grind a winch which would not be the case if it was lead back to the cockpit as explained by T.P.

No autopilot or vane. Although an autopilot would be nice, I can't justify spending the $$ for the type of sailing I do. Once I have the boat balanced I can lock the wheel for those moments I need to head down below. I am thinking of messing around with sheet to wheel steering this year. If it works 50% of the time, good enough.

I feel very blessed, I have a mooring on mid coast Maine. During the summer another island anchorage is just a few miles away. I'm not putting 100 miles under the keel to arrive in nervana cause I'm already there.

People who have never had some form of autopilot don't realize how liberating they are. Without one you are chained to the tiller except for a very short sprint to do something else. You can heave to for a while if you must but there is no fun in that.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "People who have never had some form of autopilot don't realize how liberating they are. Without one you are chained to the tiller except for a very short sprint to do something else. You can heave to for a while if you must but there is no fun in that. "

There is certainly truth in that, but let us not mislead novices into thinking that having a tiller rather than a wheel precludes having an auto-pilot. It does not! APs intended for tiller steering are simpler and cheaper than those intended for wheel steering. They are also simpler to deal with when, not if, they go wrong. As they will.

One of the things for novices to think about as they fall in love with their APs is whether they let these devices get in the way of their compliance with COLREGS #5 :-)

TP

[Tayana42]

Jhughes, you are getting some very strong opinions here about single handed sailing and about details such as wheel vs tiller. Please be aware that other people hold equally strong but opposite opinions. If the boat you are interested in surveys well and you can make a price arrangement you are happy with buy it. Don’t worry about wheel/tiller or if the halyards are lead back to the cockpit. Many sailors fully enjoy their boats with each of these arrangements. Once you have your own experience you can come to your own conclusions about which you prefer.

I would agree that some form of autopilot is a great benefit for a single hander. For bay, river or coastal sailing an electronic autopilot may be your best bet. They are easy to set and easy to adjust course. Wind vane steering becomes more useful when you are going offshore for long distances where winds are more consistent and courses are held for much longer time frames. Good wind vane systems can be very expensive.

[misfits]

Originally Posted by stormalong

People who have never had some form of autopilot don't realize how liberating they are. Without one you are chained to the tiller except for a very short sprint to do something else. You can heave to for a while if you must but there is no fun in that.

I had an autopilot on the last two sport fishing vessels I owned. Could troll for hours on end & never touch the wheel.
That was liberating