Middle class family entry level coastal cruisers, what are they?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Fence Man

This is a concern for me, as well. We are in NE FL, doing a little exploratory boat shopping, and the long term dockage is quite spendy. Is there a more cost efficient way to store a boat 9 months out of the year than $15/ft/month?

Yes, you can go to the Panhandle of Fl, where a 65’ slip goes for about $250 a month and you can put a 10’ dinghy or a 65’ Yacht or nothing in it, they don’t care.
Renting a slip by the foot of boat length in it makes no sense to me, but we fall for it, over and over.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That could be it... I hadn't thought of it, but it makes sense... I grew up taking apart go-cart and motorcycle engines, riding a Vespa scooter and building tree houses...and all manners of back-yard forts...
but now kids aren't allowed out of the house, and even if you wanted to work on your own car, who can? Remember when we used to give our own cars tune-ups? No wonder the idea of a project inspires paralyzing trepidation instead of excitement. And then the cost of hiring someone else puts it out of reach. That doesn't bode well for the aging classic boats languishing around the world. Is the DIY an endangered species?

+1. Funny thing is there are a couple of members here that constantly denigrate and belittle those seeking knowledge on how to do this or that, insisting that one must use a qualified and certified professional. Its the only safe way!!

[john61ct]

Well when the questions asked show zero knowledge, the poster is cocky and the topic is dangerous or super expensive if done wrong. . .

[Jim Cate]

DIY may indeed be an endangered species in urban USA, but in many of t he island nations we visit the practice is nearly universal. I suspect that a visit to rural America would reveal a fair amount of DIY, especially amongst farmers who have done DIY for generations.

And from my perspective, it has never been less expensive to buy and equip a modest older cruising boat. Sure is less costly than when I was edging up the boat size ladder. Thing is, all too many folks are brainwashed into the gotta be new and shiny and electronic thought process, both in terms of boats and in all the aspects of modern life. Given that mindset, costs rise dramatically for the cruising sailor, and the prospects of building enough wealth prior to departure to fund the adventure fade from reality.

We see both sides of the coin here on CF... the 500 buck a month types and the Oyster or bust types. How many posts have you read where the advice is to buy new or nearly new "in order to minimize down stream costs"? How many posts deriding lower cost cruising as "just camping"? IMO, anyone with the true desire to go cruising can likely do so, IF willing to give up a good deal of the "good life" prior to departure, and to find the means to enjoy the less expensive aspects of cruising. That's how we started off... I know it can be done!

There are enough CF contributors who succeed in cruising on a meager budget to lend some credence to my thoughts, and I'm always glad to read of their accomplishments. For those fortunate enough to feed higher on the hog, good for them! Most have worked damn hard to get where they are and no one should criticize their style. We might look with some envy at the all carbon Gunboat or whatever, but that shouldn't impinge on the joy we derive from our own vessels and travels, however modest they may be.

And finally for perspective, I've been a life long DIYer. Yet this year, at age 79, I bloody well hired someone to do a serious bottom job. Felt pretty weird, too! But when we relaunched and I didn't hurt for a week, the weirdness diminished!

Off of the soapbox now...

Jim

[a64pilot]

If you have ever had to work on a Combine, then you have worked on likely the most complex mechanical machine there is.
I knew right off when my mechanics in the Army were Farm boys, they knew how to use tools.
The city kids could work on aircraft as long as it was a task they had been taught, but what astonished me was they would take their car in to have the oil changed or spark plugs changed, cause they didn’t know how.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

DIY may indeed be an endangered species in urban USA, but in many of t he island nations we visit the practice is nearly universal. I suspect that a visit to rural America would reveal a fair amount of DIY, especially amongst farmers who have done DIY for generations.

And from my perspective, it has never been less expensive to buy and equip a modest older cruising boat. Sure is less costly than when I was edging up the boat size ladder. Thing is, all too many folks are brainwashed into the gotta be new and shiny and electronic thought process, both in terms of boats and in all the aspects of modern life. Given that mindset, costs rise dramatically for the cruising sailor, and the prospects of building enough wealth prior to departure to fund the adventure fade from reality.

We see both sides of the coin here on CF... the 500 buck a month types and the Oyster or bust types. How many posts have you read where the advice is to buy new or nearly new "in order to minimize down stream costs"? How many posts deriding lower cost cruising as "just camping"? IMO, anyone with the true desire to go cruising can likely do so, IF willing to give up a good deal of the "good life" prior to departure, and to find the means to enjoy the less expensive aspects of cruising. That's how we started off... I know it can be done!

There are enough CF contributors who succeed in cruising on a meager budget to lend some credence to my thoughts, and I'm always glad to read of their accomplishments. For those fortunate enough to feed higher on the hog, good for them! Most have worked damn hard to get where they are and no one should criticize their style. We might look with some envy at the all carbon Gunboat or whatever, but that shouldn't impinge on the joy we derive from our own vessels and travels, however modest they may be.

And finally for perspective, I've been a life long DIYer. Yet this year, at age 79, I bloody well hired someone to do a serious bottom job. Felt pretty weird, too! But when we relaunched and I didn't hurt for a week, the weirdness diminished!

Off of the soapbox now...

Jim

Great post Jim.

[john61ct]

And well over 80% of the US population now live in urban areas, and I bet the younger, higher-income segment is much higher.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

DIY may indeed be an endangered species in urban USA, but in many of t he island nations we visit the practice is nearly universal. I suspect that a visit to rural America would reveal a fair amount of DIY, especially amongst farmers who have done DIY for generations.

And from my perspective, it has never been less expensive to buy and equip a modest older cruising boat. Sure is less costly than when I was edging up the boat size ladder. Thing is, all too many folks are brainwashed into the gotta be new and shiny and electronic thought process, both in terms of boats and in all the aspects of modern life. Given that mindset, costs rise dramatically for the cruising sailor, and the prospects of building enough wealth prior to departure to fund the adventure fade from reality.

We see both sides of the coin here on CF... the 500 buck a month types and the Oyster or bust types. How many posts have you read where the advice is to buy new or nearly new "in order to minimize down stream costs"? How many posts deriding lower cost cruising as "just camping"? IMO, anyone with the true desire to go cruising can likely do so, IF willing to give up a good deal of the "good life" prior to departure, and to find the means to enjoy the less expensive aspects of cruising. That's how we started off... I know it can be done!

There are enough CF contributors who succeed in cruising on a meager budget to lend some credence to my thoughts, and I'm always glad to read of their accomplishments. For those fortunate enough to feed higher on the hog, good for them! Most have worked damn hard to get where they are and no one should criticize their style. We might look with some envy at the all carbon Gunboat or whatever, but that shouldn't impinge on the joy we derive from our own vessels and travels, however modest they may be.

And finally for perspective, I've been a life long DIYer. Yet this year, at age 79, I bloody well hired someone to do a serious bottom job. Felt pretty weird, too! But when we relaunched and I didn't hurt for a week, the weirdness diminished!

Off of the soapbox now...

Jim

Jim, you'r welcome to climb on up the soapbox anytime.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

DIY may indeed be an endangered species in urban USA, but in many of t he island nations we visit the practice is nearly universal. I suspect that a visit to rural America would reveal a fair amount of DIY, especially amongst farmers who have done DIY for generations.

And from my perspective, it has never been less expensive to buy and equip a modest older cruising boat. Sure is less costly than when I was edging up the boat size ladder. Thing is, all too many folks are brainwashed into the gotta be new and shiny and electronic thought process, both in terms of boats and in all the aspects of modern life. Given that mindset, costs rise dramatically for the cruising sailor, and the prospects of building enough wealth prior to departure to fund the adventure fade from reality.

We see both sides of the coin here on CF... the 500 buck a month types and the Oyster or bust types. How many posts have you read where the advice is to buy new or nearly new "in order to minimize down stream costs"? How many posts deriding lower cost cruising as "just camping"? IMO, anyone with the true desire to go cruising can likely do so, IF willing to give up a good deal of the "good life" prior to departure, and to find the means to enjoy the less expensive aspects of cruising. That's how we started off... I know it can be done!

There are enough CF contributors who succeed in cruising on a meager budget to lend some credence to my thoughts, and I'm always glad to read of their accomplishments. For those fortunate enough to feed higher on the hog, good for them! Most have worked damn hard to get where they are and no one should criticize their style. We might look with some envy at the all carbon Gunboat or whatever, but that shouldn't impinge on the joy we derive from our own vessels and travels, however modest they may be.

And finally for perspective, I've been a life long DIYer. Yet this year, at age 79, I bloody well hired someone to do a serious bottom job. Felt pretty weird, too! But when we relaunched and I didn't hurt for a week, the weirdness diminished!

Off of the soapbox now...

Jim

Great soap box, Jim!

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yes, you can go to the Panhandle of Fl, where a 65’ slip goes for about $250 a month and you can put a 10’ dinghy or a 65’ Yacht or nothing in it, they don’t care.
Renting a slip by the foot of boat length in it makes no sense to me, but we fall for it, over and over.

Thanks. I could see where a 200' yacht should cost more than a 35' boat, but I agree..... If it fits in the slip, it should cost what it costs. We pay right at $3k/year plus metered electricity for a 72' slip that we fill up. The guy next to us with a 50' boat pays the same, as does the fellow down the dock with the trailerable houseboat.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

DIY may indeed be an endangered species in urban USA, but in many of t he island nations we visit the practice is nearly universal. I suspect that a visit to rural America would reveal a fair amount of DIY, especially amongst farmers who have done DIY for generations.

And from my perspective, it has never been less expensive to buy and equip a modest older cruising boat. Sure is less costly than when I was edging up the boat size ladder. Thing is, all too many folks are brainwashed into the gotta be new and shiny and electronic thought process, both in terms of boats and in all the aspects of modern life. Given that mindset, costs rise dramatically for the cruising sailor, and the prospects of building enough wealth prior to departure to fund the adventure fade from reality.

We see both sides of the coin here on CF... the 500 buck a month types and the Oyster or bust types. How many posts have you read where the advice is to buy new or nearly new "in order to minimize down stream costs"? How many posts deriding lower cost cruising as "just camping"? IMO, anyone with the true desire to go cruising can likely do so, IF willing to give up a good deal of the "good life" prior to departure, and to find the means to enjoy the less expensive aspects of cruising. That's how we started off... I know it can be done!

There are enough CF contributors who succeed in cruising on a meager budget to lend some credence to my thoughts, and I'm always glad to read of their accomplishments. For those fortunate enough to feed higher on the hog, good for them! Most have worked damn hard to get where they are and no one should criticize their style. We might look with some envy at the all carbon Gunboat or whatever, but that shouldn't impinge on the joy we derive from our own vessels and travels, however modest they may be.

And finally for perspective, I've been a life long DIYer. Yet this year, at age 79, I bloody well hired someone to do a serious bottom job. Felt pretty weird, too! But when we relaunched and I didn't hurt for a week, the weirdness diminished!

Off of the soapbox now...

Jim

Here in my little corner of rural America, you would be 100% correct. I'm a hard working college dropout(they asked me to leave) that doesn't know any different than to buy junk and fix it, or build it myself from the start. My wife, who quit school at the ripe old age of 15 so she could go to work...and then end up graduating from college at 40, is the hardest working and best partner I could imagine having to achieve our goals. (She's smoking hot, and that doesn't hurt a thing) There are plenty of people that look at us cross eyed when we mention our goals and plans, so we usually keep them to ourselves. We've worked our blue collar asses off, and somehow we ended up pretty good at what we do. I'm building more fence than ever, and we are building a good material sales/distribution side to the business. We now do quite a bit of international business, and I have been lucky enough to build fence in some countries that I never even figured I'd get to visit. I flunked speech class in college, but now I speak to crowds without issue. I flunked English, but have been published a few times in industry related magazines. My physics teacher in high school once told me I was stupid. Funny how things work out sometimes. Hard work and determination with a purpose has us on the verge of success. I know that there are other ways to get there, and I am happy for people that are able to achieve success, no matter what path they take. But, I believe the bulk of middle class success comes from busted knuckles and sore backs that are attached to men and women who are just a tic smarter than most give them credit for. My next really dumb dream.......Building my wife a 45' aluminum cruising catamaran right here in the farm shop. Queue the laughter.
My version of middle class success would have us cruising the Caribbean for a few months every winter until we have achieved complete financial independence, when we could go wherever we liked. Hopefully I can be just like some of you when I grow up!

[Jim Cate]

Hopefully I can be just like some of you when I grow up!

Growing up is highly over rated and tends to interfere with going cruising!

Good onya for your accomplishments, and good luck with the cruising plans and boat building.

Jim

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Growing up is highly over rated and tends to interfere with going cruising!

Good onya for your accomplishments, and good luck with the cruising plans and boat building.

Jim

Thanks Jim!

[hsi88]

Originally Posted by kchapin

I have always wanted to sail- we had a little sailboat growing up and I loved it. I have never been able to afford it and am solidly middle class (I am a RN, husband in hospitality management). ...... I am learning why people say this is so expensive! First the trailer broke, then the motor literally fell off the transom while under sail and is currently living at the bottom of the sound, I had to leave it in the water at a friend's dock while figuring out the trailer situation and now this hurricane just came through. My uncle has a mooring system outside his house so we put it over there, (while he went out of town) his neighbor called this am to tell us it was sinking. Raced over to bail it out, then 4 hours later one of the side stays snapped and the mast was in the water......

I feel your pain! But hang in there. You can replace the motor (cable it on next time), fix the trailer, strengthen the mast stays and be back on the water before you know it. If you lived closer to the Chesapeake I would give you a hand. These things happen and are part of the price of boating. Even new boats sink. But with experience will come the ability to catch problems before they become catastrophes and you will start to enjoy it more.

As others have said, sailing has never been cheaper if you don't require a new and shiny boat. And there are lots of ways to adapt inexpensive non-marine products to your boat. I just bought a weather station with wind speed and direction (including barometer, temp, wind chill etc.) for under $100. No, its not NMEA 2000 compliant so it won't interface with my plotter, but it shows wind direction and speed on a screen that sits right beside my plotter and it shows some cool weather info at the same time. I know it won't last if I leave it in the weather, so it comes apart in seconds to be stored in the cabin when I'm not there. Just an example of finding ways to keep the cost down.

To get back to the original post, I think my Catalina 30 is an excellent family cruising boat that comfortably sails in chop, has lots of room for its size and is easy to work on. Engine access is awesome and parts are relatively cheap and plentiful thanks to its popularity. You can buy a fix 'er upper for $2-5K and a decent boat in sail away condition for around $10-15K. What more could a guy (or gal) from the middle class ask for?

[Peregrine1983]

When I tell some people I sail I get the feeling they're picturing me on a boat, wearing an ascot, and shoveling caviar into my mouth. The reality is usually no shirt, and we're eating burnt quesadillas.

I find many people think sailing is a "bourgeois" past time. Even though it can be a much cheaper hobby than power boating.