Medical Insurance & Costs

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by Group9

I'm glad you are one of the people who benefited from the ACA. But, I'm sorry so many people had to lose the insurance they had and liked to make that happen for you.

Lots of people have benefited from ACA. I think the USA taxpayer in general included.

Those who had good health insurance still have it. Those who had crap policies that did not meet minimum requirements will likely be better off making a change regardless of how much they "liked" their old insurance.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Lots of people have benefited from ACA. I think the USA taxpayer in general included.

Those who had good health insurance still have it. Those who had crap policies that did not meet minimum requirements will likely be better off making a change regardless of how much they "liked" their old insurance.

Jonathon Gruber, the architect of the ACA, said it better than I can. It appears that you are one of the people he was referring to. (Sorry, don't blame me, he's the one who said it.)

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by Group9

Jonathon Gruber, the architect of the ACA, said it better than I can. It appears that you are one of the people he was referring to. (Sorry, don't blame me, he's the one who said it.)

Gruber is hardly "the architect" of ACA. An advisor, yes.

Public IS stupid. If a service is needed for the better good of the citizens of the USA, just admit it and agree to be taxed to pay for it. We should really go with a single payer system like other fully developed countries. ADA is a compromise, but an improvement none the less.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Gruber is hardly "the architect" of ACA. An advisor, yes.

Public IS stupid. If a service is needed for the better good of the citizens of the USA, just admit it and agree to be taxed to pay for it. We should really go with a single payer system like other fully developed countries. ADA is a compromise, but an improvement none the less.

Better for some, worse for some. As Gruber pointed out, making well people pay for sick people, and hiding that fact to get it passed. If you're into that whole socialist collective thing, then I see why you would hold your position. The government that robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul.

[Dennis.G]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul:

Paying fire department to put out fires that are not mine.

Paying for wars I don't believe in.

Paying for police to investigate crimes against other people.

Paying for schools for other peoples' kids.

Paying for auto insurance when I don't wreck my car.

Paying for health insurance when I am not sick.

Socialism or just part of living in a developed society?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Group9

......making well people pay for sick people......

What do you think insurance is? Public or private.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What do you think insurance is? Public or private.

Private until people like you come along and want it made public.

I understand where you are coming from. It's not hard. You want socialized medicine. I disagree with you that that is a good thing (and the vast majority of the medical people that I have talked with about this, agrees with me). I'm sure the people who want free medical care agree with you completely.

You know (well actually I guess you don't) that there is a finite limit to what one half of the country can be taxed to pay for the other half's care and services.

And, I'm sorry this turned into a debate on Obamacare. I thought that was settled pretty well in the 2014 elections. But, I understand people like you not wanting to accept that.

And, I will shut up and give you the last word, because the OP doesn't deserve to have his thread locked over this.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

...
I do have a question though - how on earth did the US end up with a system whereby the cost of health care lies with an employer?? That seems incredibly screwed up to me. Does any other country have such nonsense?
(Disclaimer - I'm from NZ , see earlier post )

The US Federal government implemented wage controls during WWII to control labor costs and I suppose try to hide inflation. Since there was a labor shortage how would a company A attract workers from company B if they could not pay higher wages?

The answer was benefits. Company's started to provide retirement pensions, vacation days, life insurance and health care which was not controlled by government.

Later,
Dan

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Group9

Private until people like you come along and want it made public.

You didn't understand the question. ALL health insurance of any type and any form - public or private - consists of well people paying for sick people.

That is how insurance works.

For example, our lightning strike insurance payout was more than we had ever put into insurance, so some poor sucker who didn't suffer boat damage footed that bill for us (yeah!). On the other hand, we were footing the bill for others during those years when we didn't have any boat damage (damn!).

But I like your thinking - everything privatized - we can get rid of medicare, tax breaks, home tax credits, child tax credits, school taxes, social security and a vast number of other socialized things that people have to pay for others to use. Everyone pays just for those things they want/need.

And if the US wants to go into another war, they can go begging for funding from just those that want to support that war. Same with NASA, the NIH, the NSF.

Yessir, we will be a great country then - rich and prosperous.

Mark

[toddedger]

well it's December 15 the last day for sign up and I've had it with the Obama care crap. Before Obama care my Blue Cross policy that I pay for covered pre existing conditions and I have several. Now in the second year my policy quote is double what it was before Obama care started. Yes I can get about a third of it subsidized if I play ball with the website. I probably had 20 hours into it last year. I finally got a call back offering help with the sign up in June this year. Thats six months after the sign up deadline. This year it took a week to get my account to open because they lost all of the passwords. Then when I get on the site my security software goes crazy cause the government's security certificate is no good. Besides doubling in price my deductible went up a thousand dollars. I take tramadol for a chronic illness. This summer the government changed the classification to schedule 4, making the cost go up $100 a month. Michigan didn't set up an exchange meaning that this summer the supreme court will probably take my subsidy away even though they upheld the mandate that I have to pay a penalty if I don't have any insurance. I'm done cause I can't afford to go to the doctor when I need to cause I'm paying so much for drugs and insurance. I'm ready to self insure and my procedure dollars will probably be leaving the country.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

For the first time in my life I am without health insurance...by choice. Until recently I carried a very affordable (~$240/month) policy here in Guatemala. My normal annual healthcare costs are substantially less than the cost of this policy and I have several friends who've had major medical services here and all have spent less than $10K. So when the policy came up for renewal, I cancelled it. Given the affordability of healthcare in Central America It seemed like a waste of money to me to insure against affordable expenses.

Just as an example of Central American costs: I completed some rountine annual exams today in Guatemala City. Two office visits at Q300 (about US$40) each. That's the full cash price.

Got a few vaccinations too (Flu, Tetanus booster, Yellow Fever for near future travel plans). Those were a little spendy at close to $200 all total, but have no idea what they would have costs in the States.

[rbyham]

The major issue with US healthcare for me is the almost obscene pricing that originates with the medical community itself. I am basically healthy, 60, make 80k a year and have company health insurance. So what! Dentist visits, some skin cancer treatments, a minor back issue this year and some minor finger surgery for my wife has us drowning in just the 20% that is mine, plus deductible, plus $250/m coming out of my paycheck to pay the company. It is crazy the bills we see. And always always always the first number comes from the doctor or dentist. Then the negotiated cost. Then the part my insurance pays. Then what is left to me and I am telling you I thank God every day I am basically healthy. The medical community would bleed me dry if I had ongoing serious issues.

And dont get me started on the latest trend of large hospitals offering doctors some sort of huge incentive to join their networks and drive business to them so they can tack on huge facilities charges on top of what are already ridiculous prices. I sniffed that one out quick and it is the first issue I delve into with a doctor. Do not send me any where near a freakin hospital cuz it will triple the cost of procedures I could get cheaper elsewhere.

ACA and any other form of insurance is a joke in this country because none of them address the problem which is that pricing and numbers are all inflated at the source which is the medical community itself. And if I ever figure out how the uninsured manage to get treatment without paying I will opt out of this whole mess in a heartbeat.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by dannc

The US Federal government implemented wage controls during WWII to control labor costs and I suppose try to hide inflation. Since there was a labor shortage how would a company A attract workers from company B if they could not pay higher wages?

The answer was benefits. Company's started to provide retirement pensions, vacation days, life insurance and health care which was not controlled by government.

Later,
Dan

Post WWII did firm this up, but employer based health insurance in the US pre-dates WWII. Here's a good summary article:
How did America end up with this health care system? | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[colemj]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Just as an example of Central American costs: I completed some rountine annual exams today in Guatemala City. Two office visits at Q300 (about US$40) each. That's the full cash price.

Got a few vaccinations too (Flu, Tetanus booster, Yellow Fever for near future travel plans). Those were a little spendy at close to $200 all total, but have no idea what they would have costs in the States.

We had similar in the US recently - using our new silver plan health insurance. The office visit cost $50 copay, the tetanus shot was a $20 copay, and we paid $25 for the flu shot at a drugstore. The actual costs were much higher.

For us, this was fantastic, because before ACA, we were on the hook for everything. Our new plan is basically our old catastrophic insurance plan and costs, but the difference when ACA took effect is that they are now forced to pay for certain things they didn't before, and they can't drop us if we actually get sick.

Mark

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by colemj

We had similar in the US recently - using our new silver plan health insurance. The office visit cost $50 copay, the tetanus shot was a $20 copay, and we paid $25 for the flu shot at a drugstore. The actual costs were much higher.

For us, this was fantastic, because ....

Ive thought of signing up for ACA just because I can, but I rarely visit the USA so it would just be for major medical worth traveling for. But, I prefer the care here in Guate. Patient care is the focus and its actually an enjoyable exprerience. The system in the USA is frustrating and unpleasant...like being run thru a beaureacratic grist mill.

Wonder what the full cost of your office visits were? The Q300 I paid was the full charge.