Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-12-2014, 07:26   #106
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 750
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I'm glad you are one of the people who benefited from the ACA. But, I'm sorry so many people had to lose the insurance they had and liked to make that happen for you.
Lots of people have benefited from ACA. I think the USA taxpayer in general included.

Those who had good health insurance still have it. Those who had crap policies that did not meet minimum requirements will likely be better off making a change regardless of how much they "liked" their old insurance.
__________________

__________________
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 07:35   #107
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Lots of people have benefited from ACA. I think the USA taxpayer in general included.

Those who had good health insurance still have it. Those who had crap policies that did not meet minimum requirements will likely be better off making a change regardless of how much they "liked" their old insurance.
Jonathon Gruber, the architect of the ACA, said it better than I can. It appears that you are one of the people he was referring to. (Sorry, don't blame me, he's the one who said it.)

__________________

__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 08:16   #108
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 750
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Jonathon Gruber, the architect of the ACA, said it better than I can. It appears that you are one of the people he was referring to. (Sorry, don't blame me, he's the one who said it.)
Gruber is hardly "the architect" of ACA. An advisor, yes.

Public IS stupid. If a service is needed for the better good of the citizens of the USA, just admit it and agree to be taxed to pay for it. We should really go with a single payer system like other fully developed countries. ADA is a compromise, but an improvement none the less.
__________________
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 08:39   #109
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Gruber is hardly "the architect" of ACA. An advisor, yes.

Public IS stupid. If a service is needed for the better good of the citizens of the USA, just admit it and agree to be taxed to pay for it. We should really go with a single payer system like other fully developed countries. ADA is a compromise, but an improvement none the less.
Better for some, worse for some. As Gruber pointed out, making well people pay for sick people, and hiding that fact to get it passed. If you're into that whole socialist collective thing, then I see why you would hold your position. The government that robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul.
__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 09:02   #110
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 750
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Robbing Peter to pay Paul:

Paying fire department to put out fires that are not mine.

Paying for wars I don't believe in.

Paying for police to investigate crimes against other people.

Paying for schools for other peoples' kids.

Paying for auto insurance when I don't wreck my car.

Paying for health insurance when I am not sick.

Socialism or just part of living in a developed society?
__________________
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 09:59   #111
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,577
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
......making well people pay for sick people......
What do you think insurance is? Public or private.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 13:19   #112
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
What do you think insurance is? Public or private.
Private until people like you come along and want it made public.

I understand where you are coming from. It's not hard. You want socialized medicine. I disagree with you that that is a good thing (and the vast majority of the medical people that I have talked with about this, agrees with me). I'm sure the people who want free medical care agree with you completely.

You know (well actually I guess you don't) that there is a finite limit to what one half of the country can be taxed to pay for the other half's care and services.

And, I'm sorry this turned into a debate on Obamacare. I thought that was settled pretty well in the 2014 elections. But, I understand people like you not wanting to accept that.

And, I will shut up and give you the last word, because the OP doesn't deserve to have his thread locked over this.
__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 14:05   #113
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 596
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
...
I do have a question though - how on earth did the US end up with a system whereby the cost of health care lies with an employer?? That seems incredibly screwed up to me. Does any other country have such nonsense?
(Disclaimer - I'm from NZ , see earlier post )
The US Federal government implemented wage controls during WWII to control labor costs and I suppose try to hide inflation. Since there was a labor shortage how would a company A attract workers from company B if they could not pay higher wages?

The answer was benefits. Company's started to provide retirement pensions, vacation days, life insurance and health care which was not controlled by government.

Later,
Dan
__________________
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 15:59   #114
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Private until people like you come along and want it made public.
You didn't understand the question. ALL health insurance of any type and any form - public or private - consists of well people paying for sick people.

That is how insurance works.

For example, our lightning strike insurance payout was more than we had ever put into insurance, so some poor sucker who didn't suffer boat damage footed that bill for us (yeah!). On the other hand, we were footing the bill for others during those years when we didn't have any boat damage (damn!).

But I like your thinking - everything privatized - we can get rid of medicare, tax breaks, home tax credits, child tax credits, school taxes, social security and a vast number of other socialized things that people have to pay for others to use. Everyone pays just for those things they want/need.

And if the US wants to go into another war, they can go begging for funding from just those that want to support that war. Same with NASA, the NIH, the NSF.

Yessir, we will be a great country then - rich and prosperous.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 16:47   #115
Registered User
 
toddedger's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Boat: Morgan 27
Posts: 264
Thumbs down Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

well it's December 15 the last day for sign up and I've had it with the Obama care crap. Before Obama care my Blue Cross policy that I pay for covered pre existing conditions and I have several. Now in the second year my policy quote is double what it was before Obama care started. Yes I can get about a third of it subsidized if I play ball with the website. I probably had 20 hours into it last year. I finally got a call back offering help with the sign up in June this year. Thats six months after the sign up deadline. This year it took a week to get my account to open because they lost all of the passwords. Then when I get on the site my security software goes crazy cause the government's security certificate is no good. Besides doubling in price my deductible went up a thousand dollars. I take tramadol for a chronic illness. This summer the government changed the classification to schedule 4, making the cost go up $100 a month. Michigan didn't set up an exchange meaning that this summer the supreme court will probably take my subsidy away even though they upheld the mandate that I have to pay a penalty if I don't have any insurance. I'm done cause I can't afford to go to the doctor when I need to cause I'm paying so much for drugs and insurance. I'm ready to self insure and my procedure dollars will probably be leaving the country.
__________________
toddedger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 19:57   #116
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,932
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
For the first time in my life I am without health insurance...by choice. Until recently I carried a very affordable (~$240/month) policy here in Guatemala. My normal annual healthcare costs are substantially less than the cost of this policy and I have several friends who've had major medical services here and all have spent less than $10K. So when the policy came up for renewal, I cancelled it. Given the affordability of healthcare in Central America It seemed like a waste of money to me to insure against affordable expenses.
Just as an example of Central American costs: I completed some rountine annual exams today in Guatemala City. Two office visits at Q300 (about US$40) each. That's the full cash price.

Got a few vaccinations too (Flu, Tetanus booster, Yellow Fever for near future travel plans). Those were a little spendy at close to $200 all total, but have no idea what they would have costs in the States.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 20:23   #117
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 141
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

The major issue with US healthcare for me is the almost obscene pricing that originates with the medical community itself. I am basically healthy, 60, make 80k a year and have company health insurance. So what! Dentist visits, some skin cancer treatments, a minor back issue this year and some minor finger surgery for my wife has us drowning in just the 20% that is mine, plus deductible, plus $250/m coming out of my paycheck to pay the company. It is crazy the bills we see. And always always always the first number comes from the doctor or dentist. Then the negotiated cost. Then the part my insurance pays. Then what is left to me and I am telling you I thank God every day I am basically healthy. The medical community would bleed me dry if I had ongoing serious issues.

And dont get me started on the latest trend of large hospitals offering doctors some sort of huge incentive to join their networks and drive business to them so they can tack on huge facilities charges on top of what are already ridiculous prices. I sniffed that one out quick and it is the first issue I delve into with a doctor. Do not send me any where near a freakin hospital cuz it will triple the cost of procedures I could get cheaper elsewhere.

ACA and any other form of insurance is a joke in this country because none of them address the problem which is that pricing and numbers are all inflated at the source which is the medical community itself. And if I ever figure out how the uninsured manage to get treatment without paying I will opt out of this whole mess in a heartbeat.
__________________
rbyham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 06:06   #118
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,577
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannc View Post
The US Federal government implemented wage controls during WWII to control labor costs and I suppose try to hide inflation. Since there was a labor shortage how would a company A attract workers from company B if they could not pay higher wages?

The answer was benefits. Company's started to provide retirement pensions, vacation days, life insurance and health care which was not controlled by government.

Later,
Dan
Post WWII did firm this up, but employer based health insurance in the US pre-dates WWII. Here's a good summary article:
How did America end up with this health care system? | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 06:24   #119
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Medical Insurance & Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Just as an example of Central American costs: I completed some rountine annual exams today in Guatemala City. Two office visits at Q300 (about US$40) each. That's the full cash price.

Got a few vaccinations too (Flu, Tetanus booster, Yellow Fever for near future travel plans). Those were a little spendy at close to $200 all total, but have no idea what they would have costs in the States.
We had similar in the US recently - using our new silver plan health insurance. The office visit cost $50 copay, the tetanus shot was a $20 copay, and we paid $25 for the flu shot at a drugstore. The actual costs were much higher.

For us, this was fantastic, because before ACA, we were on the hook for everything. Our new plan is basically our old catastrophic insurance plan and costs, but the difference when ACA took effect is that they are now forced to pay for certain things they didn't before, and they can't drop us if we actually get sick.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 06:38   #120
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post

We had similar in the US recently - using our new silver plan health insurance. The office visit cost $50 copay, the tetanus shot was a $20 copay, and we paid $25 for the flu shot at a drugstore. The actual costs were much higher.

For us, this was fantastic, because ....
Ive thought of signing up for ACA just because I can, but I rarely visit the USA so it would just be for major medical worth traveling for. But, I prefer the care here in Guate. Patient care is the focus and its actually an enjoyable exprerience. The system in the USA is frustrating and unpleasant...like being run thru a beaureacratic grist mill.

Wonder what the full cost of your office visits were? The Q300 I paid was the full charge.
__________________

__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cal, insurance, medical

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.