Here's how (and why) it comes from "I don't like brokers" to "I hate brokers"

[FutureStories]

Was I not helpful to you? Not only did I take a lot of time helping you with sold boat research, but I also put a lot of time in going through unconventional methods to try to help you find one of the boats you want at a price you could afford.

After investing a fair amount of time with you. You mentioned you’re dealing with several brokers. And you had no loyalty to anyone.

Why should someone go out of their way to help you when you have no loyalty to them.

Also, you reached out to me first.

Now. If you found someone you could trust and work with. You could probably get all the other brokers to leave you alone by telling them you’re working with someone. And give them the name and email of the broker you’re working with.

Many brokers are greedy lazy bottom feeders and will then leave you alone because they want the whole enchilada.

But that doesn’t mean all of us are **** bags.

And for anyone who thinks it’s sooooo easy I invite you to come work with me for a month. If you make it the month I’ll give you half the commissions we make if you can make it.

If you think we suck, think of the people we deal with most:
-people who think their boat is worth 25% more than all the others on the market
-people who think they can buy any boat for half price
-boat yards (try getting a boat launched in the winter when half these places aren’t even open)
-surveyors (most of these guys are pathetic! With questionable experience but their word is gold because they have a fancy website)
-BANKS (yeah. Those ********)
-and other brokers (you’ve got to hope these out of state guys can put the ****ed up pieces of the puzzle mentioned above together as well as you can to get a deal done)
-and my favorite “boating _______” (brother, friend, father, guy I met at the bar) who knows how to do your job better than you

^^^sounds sexy doesn’t it!

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

On what basis are you assuming the broker has minimum education? I've met plenty of people in the oilpatch with masters or higher degrees doing grunt work.....because the pay is good and they like the change in scenery.

Just because dealers, brokers, realtors are bugging me in one way or another quite often. They offering to sell my house even if I write "strictly no realtors". They offering to sell me something I don't need (and clearly stated that). Etc., etc.
And if (sometimes, for fun) I start asking that realtor to explain current market situation (which I monitor and know perfectly), he or she just starts "can't tell anything right now, I need to prepare report..." So he/she came to my house to f my brain, while has no clue about what's going on.
And if you ask - they paid so good (scamming people like that) you wouldn't believe.

It's not single example, it's my experience with them for many-many years.

Originally Posted by chris mac

So a broker told you about a boat. You told him the price was wrong, should be 400k.
Now you're upset when he contacted you again when the price dropped closer to what you stated!
If you aren't interested, don't negotiate!!!

So you have trouble reading whole story, I guess? In OP I clearly stated -t when he first contacted me, I replied that I'M NOT INTERESTED in that boat because it doesn't have features I want. My price suggestion was simple suggestion, because I knew market better than him (and time proofed that!). It was NOT an offer, and I was absolutely clear on that. May be you can point me, where I was trying to negotiate???

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

Do you mean aesthetically attractive, or financially? If we're talking aesthetics here, remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not a big fan of Lagoons in general, but this model is a darn sight better than their current models, which fall into the category of "condomarans".

Otherwise, I generally agree with your post, it can be frustrating dealing with people just out to sell a boat, regardless of your own needs and desires. But that's nothing new, or unique to boat brokers...
-David

Not attractive to general public. After 3 years of research and market monitoring I know what sells, what brings a lot of interest etc. Today - it's new or slightly used smaller catamarans. Anything big or old scares people away. And that comes to other thing - smaller and newer catamaran is easy to sell after few years of cruising, sometimes even for same amount of money they paid for it! Anything bigger or older - no matter how well it's equipped - either you sell it for nothing or stuck with it for years. Exceptions? Sure, there are few, just like everywhere else.
But in general, people don't want to rely on exceptions.
If something is not attractive to general public - that has impact on price. If not many people interested in it - hard to sell, lower price.
We can like it or not, but that's how things are today.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by achil

If the house you bought was listed with a Realtor you screwed yourself for not using a buyer's broker, because it wouldn't have cost you anything and you may have ended up with a better deal.

I worked directly with sellers realtor (obviously, I couldn't avoid that), at the end I bought property with 20% discount (and it was simply cheapest sold price in the area in few previous and ALL following years, cheapest BY FAR), and PLUS - realtor paid my legal fees (why wouldn't he? He grabbed ALL commission instead of splitting it with buyer's agent!).

Now you're trying to teach me how to buy a house???

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My belief is that boat brokers are good for higher-end sales, but all too often are a negative at the lower end of the scale. The reason is obvious. There’s not much money for the broker in a sale under, say $50,000. Since most brokers operate on a 10% commission, a lower-end boat simply isn’t worth much of their effort.

I can tell you - even on 500K boat they not willing to do A THING for you. That's 50K of potential commission!

They do not answering e-mails, they don't provide additional pictures and information, NOTHING!
And this is GENERAL rule, not exception. I personally experienced this many times.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

I can tell you - even on 500K boat they not willing to A THING for you. That's 50K of potential commission!

They do not answering e-mails, they don't provide additional pictures and information, NOTHING!
And this is GENERAL rule, not exception. I personally experienced this many times.

Why? Why would someone behave like this? This makes no sense.

The market at this range is relatively small, so word will get around fast. Therefore this broker will be out of business very quickly. The only way this could work is if there is a constant influx of new, equally bad brokers to step in for the constant outflow of proven bad ones.

Sorry, but this stretches credulity.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

Was I not helpful to you? Not only did I take a lot of time helping you with sold boat research, but I also put a lot of time in going through unconventional methods to try to help you find one of the boats you want at a price you could afford.

After investing a fair amount of time with you. You mentioned you’re dealing with several brokers. And you had no loyalty to anyone.

Why should someone go out of their way to help you when you have no loyalty to them.

Also, you reached out to me first.

I told you thanks for sold data many times, and can tell again - thank you. I described the boat I'm looking for - you wasn't able to find anything close, right? But life goes on. I meet other people, not necessary brokers, who have access to other boats, to other information etc. Are you saying that I should ignore them just because you've sent me some sold prices?
Man, I have nothing personally against you, I just described general situation with brokers, dealers, realtors. You wasn't ever bugging me, may be you are that very rare honest and helpful broker.
Really sorry if I touched your feelings. You are probably most reasonable person from dealer/broker/realtor breed I ever met so far (but never done business with).
Cheers.

[leont]

Why bush a profession (brokers, dealers, ...)?
What about teachers? One can read a book and learn the subject.
One can rebuild an engine or deliver a boat, if one knows how; does not mean mechanics and captains are rip off artists.

I have sold a boat thru Sail Away Catamarans. They took care of myriad of things I did not want to be bothered with, like keep it clean, showings, pics, docs, etc.

Nobody can force me to deal with anyone I do not want to; it is that simple.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My own experience with boat brokers is mixed, leaning to negative. Most brokers I had to deal with had limited useful knowledge about the boats they were listing. Those that responded to my queries (many did not) were polite. But most lacked the detailed information I wanted, or were willing to do much to get it. In a few cases a couple of really bad apples outright lied to me, costing me time and money.

My belief is that boat brokers are good for higher-end sales, but all too often are a negative at the lower end of the scale. The reason is obvious. There’s not much money for the broker in a sale under, say $50,000. Since most brokers operate on a 10% commission, a lower-end boat simply isn’t worth much of their effort.

As a small business owner, I fully understand this. You must match time and effort to the potential fee being received. If I over-spend in time/effort, then I quickly go out of business. So at the low end, most brokers simply can’t afford to spend the time I, as the potential buyer, wants of them.

I wish brokers would avoid involving themselves in low-end sales. But I know they get pressured to take on these boats from sellers, in part, b/c you have to be a broker to list on YachtWorld. If they’d open Yacht World to everyone, this might alleviate some of the problem.

My last boat buy my experience with brokers was also mixed, mostly negative. Found a listing I liked, called the broker learned it was sold but like a good broker he said he would find something else. I gave him my must have list: center cockpit, sloop or cutter only, moderate draft/modified fin, skeg hung rudder. A few days later he called to sell me an aft cockpit, full keel/attached rudder, ketch. Obviously he never got another call from me. The only other broker I spoke to showed me a C&C I liked but was overpriced so he offered other boats that were nice but not what I wanted.

Regarding small sales, when I sold boats I was quite happy to sell a $50k boat. I sold a couple of $20k boats. Even splitting the commission with another broker a $50k sale netted me around $1500 after the house got it's share. I wasn't so rich I would sneeze at that size check.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by leont

Why bush a profession (brokers, dealers, ...)?
What about teachers? One can read a book and learn the subject.

May be because other professions don't involve constant lies (while looking right into your eyes), hidden pressure, cheating, hiding things, etc.etc.etc.?

[achil]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

I worked directly with sellers realtor (obviously, I couldn't avoid that), at the end I bought property with 20% discount (and it was simply cheapest sold price in the area in few previous and ALL following years, cheapest BY FAR), and PLUS - realtor paid my legal fees (why wouldn't he? He grabbed ALL commission instead of splitting it with buyer's agent!).

Now you're trying to teach me how to buy a house???

When it comes to real estate you usually get what you pay for. If you got what you claim then the house was overpriced or the owners were in financial difficulties; or the broker didn't know his job and overpriced it.

I am not trying to teach you anything because you come across as unteachable and I wouldn't waste my time. However, when it comes to residential real estate I do know what I am talking about.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by achil

When it comes to real estate you usually get what you pay for. If you got what you claim then the house was overpriced or the owners were in financial difficulties; or the broker didn't know his job and overpriced it.

Well, than I have more news for you - it was NOT overpriced from the beginning at all.
At the end I bought property about 35% cheaper comparing to other properties sold in the area at the same time, with lots 2 times smaller than mine. Regarding the rest - yes, I knew right moment, and that's something I NEVER would find out if I would have buyer's realtor. Realtor - it's like wall protecting you from seeing what you "shouldn't" see (in their opinion).

[sailorboy1]

The two times I used a broker I told their the boats I would look at. Then I picked one and told them the price I would pay for for them to go make it happen.

That's same thing I do when I go to buy a house.

[robert sailor]

This is quite a funny thread. If many of you had to sell for a living you'd be living on nothing but depression sandwiches (That's 1/2 a bean with a corn flake on each side) you have no idea on how many flakes and nut cases a poor broker has to put up with, its no wonder they get jaded. When a thread comes up on this forum about buying a boat 3/4 of this group comes out the door with 1/2 price offer suggestions and they have no idea what condition the boat is in. Those are the folks that they have to deal with.
Why do people hire a broker? Simple they have even less tolerance for dealing with the same flakes. Making half price offers over the phone and haven't seen the boat, don't show up for appointments and in many cases they have no intention of buying in the first place. It's pretty easy to understand the situation. Are there good brokers and lousy brokers..Well of course just like good and bad doctors, remember 1/2 graduated at the bottom of their class.
You get pissed off if a broker calls you, I got news I'd get pissed off if the broker wasn't making calls although in your case he should have given it a pass.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

When a thread comes up on this forum about buying a boat 3/4 of this group comes out the door with 1/2 price offer suggestions and they have no idea what condition the boat is in. Those are the folks that they have to deal with.

Well, what would you expect if broker refuse to provide extra pictures, extra details, and boat is on other side of the Globe? He wants me to fly there just to find out it's POS?
I say offering 1/2 price is way too much in many of such cases.

I used to sell cars (privately). People asked for 50 pictures, because they DIDN'T WANT TO DRIVE 40 min and see something they don't like! That's car for $10K, not boat for 200K!!!

[chris mac]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Just because dealers, brokers, realtors are bugging me in one way or another quite often. They offering to sell my house even if I write "strictly no realtors". They offering to sell me something I don't need (and clearly stated that). Etc., etc.
And if (sometimes, for fun) I start asking that realtor to explain current market situation (which I monitor and know perfectly), he or she just starts "can't tell anything right now, I need to prepare report..." So he/she came to my house to f my brain, while has no clue about what's going on.
And if you ask - they paid so good (scamming people like that) you wouldn't believe.

It's not single example, it's my experience with them for many-many years.



So you have trouble reading whole story, I guess? In OP I clearly stated -t when he first contacted me, I replied that I'M NOT INTERESTED in that boat because it doesn't have features I want. My price suggestion was simple suggestion, because I knew market better than him (and time proofed that!). It was NOT an offer, and I was absolutely clear on that. May be you can point me, where I was trying to negotiate???



Not attractive to general public. After 3 years of research and market monitoring I know what sells, what brings a lot of interest etc. Today - it's new or slightly used smaller catamarans. Anything big or old scares people away. And that comes to other thing - smaller and newer catamaran is easy to sell after few years of cruising, sometimes even for same amount of money they paid for it! Anything bigger or older - no matter how well it's equipped - either you sell it for nothing or stuck with it for years. Exceptions? Sure, there are few, just like everywhere else.
But in general, people don't want to rely on exceptions.
If something is not attractive to general public - that has impact on price. If not many people interested in it - hard to sell, lower price.
We can like it or not, but that's how things are today.

Actually I read and understood your story quite well, despite the poor writing style.
I know you told the broker you weren't interested. You did however continue discussing the boat, it's price and condition. To a salesman that "shows" you have some interest.
How was he to know that the only thing you had interest in was proving you knew his job better than him!
It seems that you kind of want to buy a boat, but really want to argue about and with anyone you can. Have fun with that.