Here's how (and why) it comes from "I don't like brokers" to "I hate brokers"

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

...Well, attitude entirely depends on pressure More pressure - more response. Plain physics ). I'm friendly person by default
But you are correct - not many so-called "specialists" want to deal with people who knows more than them, or more educated, or simply doesn't let them "play their game". It's true to any trade.

In real life I'm kind of "man who knows how to get things" at fraction of cost. Absolutely legally, just knowing how, when and where. And I don't need artificial barriers in form of brokers, dealers, realtors.

Right , so how’s that approach working out for you? Obviously not very well since you’re here complaining about all the bad brokers, even when the potential payout for them is $50,000. A truly smart person would reassess their negotiating strategy given your apparent lack of success.

[Mike OReilly]

skipmac: Exactly. In my opinion in most sales positions,
the most important key to success is deciding where to focus your time.
As a broker, which boats are most salable, which sellers are reasonable,
and number one, which customers are real buyers and not just tire kickers or BSers. There's just so many hours in a day and you could miss a great deal with one customer because some daydreamer without a dime is running you all over town to look at boats that he'll never buy.

I gained added appreciation for the hard work of being a broker when I sold my last boat. The number of tire kickers, and poorly informed potential buyers was staggering. But the worst were the ones who came in with attitude, telling me what my boat was worth, and using “pressure” to try and get what they wanted. I learned to give these people very little of my time, b/c they only wasted it.

[Jim Cate]

But the worst were the ones who came in with attitude, telling me what my boat was worth, and using “pressure” to try and get what they wanted. I learned to give these people very little of my time, b/c they only wasted it.

Gee, Mike, who does that sound like?

Jim

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Not attractive to general public. After 3 years of research and market monitoring I know what sells, what brings a lot of interest etc. Today - it's new or slightly used smaller catamarans. Anything big or old scares people away. And that comes to other thing - smaller and newer catamaran is easy to sell after few years of cruising, sometimes even for same amount of money they paid for it! Anything bigger or older - no matter how well it's equipped - either you sell it for nothing or stuck with it for years. Exceptions? Sure, there are few, just like everywhere else.
But in general, people don't want to rely on exceptions.
If something is not attractive to general public - that has impact on price. If not many people interested in it - hard to sell, lower price.
We can like it or not, but that's how things are today.

So now you’re the one who knows and decides what is attractive to the general public? Delusions of grandeur, if you ask me. There are all sorts of people, who like all sorts of different boats. I’m not going to tell you what you, or the general public should like. You’re starting to sound like the broker you’re bashing in your original post - he too thought you should like something you didn’t. Get off your high horse...

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Gee, Mike, who does that sound like?

Jim

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Right , so how’s that approach working out for you? Obviously not very well since you’re here complaining about all the bad brokers, even when the potential payout for them is $50,000. A truly smart person would reassess their negotiating strategy given your apparent lack of success.

These were simply buggers, trying to sell me elephant.
When I contacted brokers selling the boats I'm interested in, I didn't even had a chance to show my negotiating strategy.
They either didn't reply at all, or disappeared after I asked for more pictures and some more information. Needless to say - these boats were already few years on the market...So I didn't insist - let them stay on the market for few more years

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

So now you’re the one who knows and decides what is attractive to the general public? Delusions of grandeur, if you ask me. There are all sorts of people, who like all sorts of different boats. I’m not going to tell you what you, or the general public should like. You’re starting to sound like the broker you’re bashing in your original post - he too thought you should like something you didn’t. Get off your high horse...

It's called opinion, my friend. My opinion based on huge amount of information - interest of potential buyers on different sites, including this one, sold prices and numbers, 3 years of market monitoring - what comes to the market, what sells, what stays...That's a lot of information.

But you don't have to trust me. In fact, you don't even have to read my posts at all if in YOUR opinion they are useless and arrogant.

[hammertom]

So negative about whole industries, every field has unethical individuals.

But your argument that there is no value add from people who spend time in an industry day in and day out is just stupid. Sales professionals are able to save time and money on the purchase with market knowledge and knowledge about the physical asset. On the selling side competent professionals can help present a product in the best possible light and present to the market to expose the product to qualified buyers. The market decides value. Brokers wouldn't exist if they added no value.

Obviously when dealing with brokers you need to know who they are working for and evaluate the information accordingly.

[rallyman1122]

The OP has kinda pissed me off on this. Too many people get into sales thinking anyone can do it. And some of those succeed through hard work and honest labour. They study the market, educate themselves, offer informed opinions to prospective clients and make a honest living. Some take the low road, try to take a client for every penny possible and develop a bad reputation. And some fail miserably.

I am not in sales but have hired more than a few of them in my industry. And the most successful sales people understand when the deal is closed, there has to be something left on the table for each party. Be it good will, good sales strategy or simply being a good person. But to slang off someone doing a job you can't, seems the OP does not seem to fit the last of those. Simply a no thank you works best.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I gained added appreciation for the hard work of being a broker when I sold my last boat. The number of tire kickers, and poorly informed potential buyers was staggering.

A couple of years ago when I was in "tyre-kicker" mode I contacted a few brokers ... never heard back from them.

So this time round when I had cash in my pocket and ready to buy, I had no great expectations ... however the brokers that I contacted came straight back to me with additional info, copies of recent surveys, arranged a time to view the boat at *MY* convenience etc ... somehow from the way I wrote to them they could tell that this time I was serious.

And the brokered listings were in general much more honest representations of the boats than many of the private listings ... one of whom was using the same photos and description of the boat from the listing when he bought the boat 5 years previously (I managed to find the old listing on google).

[yalla]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Gee, Mike, who does that sound like?

Jim

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

[....] Delusions of grandeur, if you ask me. [....] Get off your high horse...

Originally Posted by hammertom

But your argument that there is no value add from people who spend time in an industry day in and day out is just stupid.

Originally Posted by rallyman1122

The OP has kinda pissed me off on this.

wow, just wow... so many angry, passive-agressive folks here. And egged on by a mod too.

[boatman61]

What Mod..???

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by boatman61

What Mod..???

It’s gotta be Jim and Anne. It’s all I got.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by yalla

wow, just wow... so many angry, passive-agressive folks here. And egged on by a mod too.

I prefer to call it smart-aggressive . At this point I conclude the OP is either a troll, or is strong evidence for the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Originally Posted by Kelkara

A couple of years ago when I was in "tyre-kicker" mode I contacted a few brokers ... never heard back from them.

So this time round when I had cash in my pocket and ready to buy, I had no great expectations ... however the brokers that I contacted came straight back to me with additional info, copies of recent surveys, arranged a time to view the boat at *MY* convenience etc ... somehow from the way I wrote to them they could tell that this time I was serious.

I bet professional brokers develop a good ability to separate the tire kickers from the real potential buyers. Comes down to allocating appropriate resources to the job.

For me, I wasn’t really bothered by tire-kickers, per say. A cruising boat purchase is a big thing for most people. It can be a long process, and each potential buyer comes the seller at a different stage.

My attitude as a private seller was to treat everyone as if they were serious, until it became obvious they weren’t. Honest tire kickers were not really a problem for me. But there were two types of apparent-buyers that pissed me off:

#1. The ones who “knew” my situation, my boat, and the market, better than I. These were the ones thick with attitude. Most of these were all talk, no action.

#2. The ones who clearly had put little or no effort into doing even the most basic level or research about the type of boat in general, or my boat in particular.

As a seller (and I assume as a professional broker) you learn to not waste time with these folks.

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

It’s gotta be Jim and Anne. It’s all I got.

Jim’s not a mod. Ann is.

[ranchero76]

It's so funny how thread slowly shifted to "brokers are not bad guys at all", even though many posters where shafted by them, and personal attack against myself, while my replies and arguments simply ignored. Trolls are calling me troll LOL.
Some people sending me "thanks" privately, they don't even want to post here and get their portion of harassment.
It's just another picture how things can be perverted by few people.

Are there good guys among brokers/realtors/dealers? Sure. 1 per 100, if not less.
Brokers/realtors/dealers are good for rich people, who seem to be "too busy" for anything, and prefer other people doing work for them.
In all other cases brokers/realtors/dealers making living on people's fears, stupidity, laziness, unwilling to learn (including unwilling to learn how to deal with buyers too). You like them? You decide to which category you belong.

[yalla]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Are there good guys among brokers/realtors/dealers? Sure. 1 per 100, if not less.
Brokers/realtors/dealers are good for rich people, who seem to be "too busy" for anything, and prefer other people doing work for them.
In all other cases brokers/realtors/dealers making living on people's fears, stupidity, laziness, unwilling to learn (including unwilling to learn how to deal with buyers too). You like them? You decide to which category you belong.

nahhhh that is too harsh. in the modern world we have no choice but to "trust the pros" in many aspects of our lives. think doctors, lawyers, taxi drivers, meteorologists, engineers, etc...
It is absolutely valid for somebody to want to have a "turnkey" cruising lifestyle, and rely on experts to do the research, negotiating, maintenance what-have-you.

Unfortunately there are too many among us unwilling to perform even a modicum of due diligence, and that exacerbates the problem.
But it's the pros that take advantage of their clients ignorance that are the problem.
In the worst case it turns to a pure rentier situation like you have in the real-estate market. If you want to sell, you have to be on MLS, and to get on MLS you have to use a realtor. The used boat market is not at that level thank god and those of us who prefer to take the DIY approach have many options to connect with like-minded buyers/sellers.
At least at the lower end of the market that I inhabit