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Old 08-07-2015, 09:37   #46
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post

However it works out, the skipper is to blame. Pointing fingers won't change that. Dock scars are the fault of the nut at the helm.
That's where we simply choose to disagree.

I have been sailing for 35 years, have had our boat for the past 17. I singlehand a lot. Consistent with many of the answers here, having "help" is more dangerous than no help.

I have had people REMOVE lines I have just completed!!!

90% of the folks I know do not understand the midships spring line, even after coaching on it.

You simply do not "get it." Nothing personal.

Sorry, I wish I had better results than yours, but it just ain't true.

In another boating forum, I posted this same question.

The ONLY consistent answers where people WERE helpful was at sailing clubs, because those respondents noted their members were knowledgeable about using the proper dock lines and knew each other. The rest of the answer paralleled the poor and many times dangerous results documented here.

STRESS? The stress comes from the monkeys who come to help. I think many of the ideas of how to deal with them posted here will help. I cringe when they all rush over to "help" and mess up what is a perfectly good, and many times, singlehanded, docking.
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:01   #47
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
And I see a troll looking to scrap from safety of a keyboard. Sit in the shade and enjoy ur weak tea.


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Gosh! Bad day at the office? Need a hug?

A little testy there...... Not to mention the assumption that he likes tea, weak or otherwise.

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Old 08-07-2015, 11:15   #48
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Gosh! Bad day at the office? Need a hug?



A little testy there...... Not to mention the assumption that he likes tea, weak or otherwise.




Nope. Cool, calm and collected and offering a proportional response to those who take joy in the thought that they may have been responsible for dockside accidents by dissuading those who would have assisted.

Ur not having trouble with the big words, I hope?


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Old 08-07-2015, 11:52   #49
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
The ONLY consistent answers where people WERE helpful was at sailing clubs, because those respondents noted their members were knowledgeable about using the proper dock lines and knew each other.
Another helpful/useful I can cite: the dock hands at Rockport Harbor - Aransas County Navigation District. We spent some time there a couple of years back. Were at anchor in the bay nearby but moved in when the wind got out of control. One of those times docking when the wind is honking 90 degs off of the port, and you are immediately pinned to starboard when you make it in, testing the fenders. We made it in ok, spent several days there, but then had to leave. Same situation: boat was held blown in the middle of the slip by docklines that were very taut. As soon as anything was untied, you immediately slammed over to the starboard pilings. Dockhands (marina employees) met us at our slip at the 7 am departure, held the lines until we got moving, and then quickly unwrapped and tossed on board. Perfect.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:03   #50
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
That's where we simply choose to disagree.

I have been sailing for 35 years, have had our boat for the past 17. I singlehand a lot. Consistent with many of the answers here, having "help" is more dangerous than no help.

I have had people REMOVE lines I have just completed!!!

90% of the folks I know do not understand the midships spring line, even after coaching on it.

You simply do not "get it." Nothing personal.

Sorry, I wish I had better results than yours, but it just ain't true.

In another boating forum, I posted this same question.

The ONLY consistent answers where people WERE helpful was at sailing clubs, because those respondents noted their members were knowledgeable about using the proper dock lines and knew each other. The rest of the answer paralleled the poor and many times dangerous results documented here.

STRESS? The stress comes from the monkeys who come to help. I think many of the ideas of how to deal with them posted here will help. I cringe when they all rush over to "help" and mess up what is a perfectly good, and many times, singlehanded, docking.

Waving off help is a simple matter.

Getting help in time to avoid the unforeseen should not require explanation.

I have had to deal with a few minor damages that incurred while being assisted by the inebriated or inexperienced. Those times were initiated when they gained control of the bow.

At the time it aggravated me to no end. In hind site I found that I could not deny all fault in the incidents.

I can't say that I put a lot of stock in polls such as you mention. Today's ease of communication has brought about the tendency to trouble shoot by committee. Some of the most outlandish ideas come from just such free for alls. Such as bean bag cannons and ostracizing and insulting all that offer assistance.







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Old 08-07-2015, 13:05   #51
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Nope. Cool, calm and collected and offering a proportional response to those who take joy in the thought that they may have been responsible for dockside accidents by dissuading those who would have assisted.

Ur not having trouble with the big words, I hope?


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Gosh! no! I love big words.
It does not assuage the situation from your mistaken viewpoint of being cool calm and collected. Neither the disproportional response to someone who carried on a theme that displeased you.

But then, its a bit like someone being dead. They dont know they are dead. Its only a problem for others.
Its the same with being an arse.
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Old 08-07-2015, 13:30   #52
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Gosh! no! I love big words.

It does not assuage the situation from your mistaken viewpoint of being cool calm and collected. Neither the disproportional response to someone who carried on a theme that displeased you.



But then, its a bit like someone being dead. They dont know they are dead. Its only a problem for others.

Its the same with being an arse.

I have been called the same and worse in a few languages. I remain very alive for the moment.

As for those that feel they must insult those that offer assistance, you reap what you sew.

My hope is that those that enjoy assisting fellow travelers will understand that comments made here are made by those looking to place blame on others.

It is hard to argue with the fact both credit and responsibility fall to the Captain.




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Old 08-07-2015, 13:43   #53
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

One other note.

We have an octogenarian that dearly loves his Pearson 365. Whenever he leaves the dock, the people that know him keep an eye out for his return.

Despite the fact that he handles the boat like an old salt, he feels free to bark whatever orders he needs to get his baby tied up unscathed. I hope there will be a willing dock rat there for him as long as he sails.




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Old 08-07-2015, 13:51   #54
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Over the past four years, our boat has received two scratches due to docking procedures, fortunately, I was able to buff them out.

The first was my fault, for being over confident and neglecting to put that one extra fender near the stern when stopping at a fuel dock.

The second which could have ended very badly, was totally the fault of a drunken idiot who wouldn't listen, and insisted he knew better and refused to do things my way. After being instructed to secure the midship line to the dock cleat which was fashioned in a large loop and waiting for him to do, he instead grabbed the stern line and jumped off onto the dock with the boat having just sailed in and turned up wind in an emergency docking maneuver without an engine. Luckily a dockhand rushed to assist when he saw the drunken fool struggling with the stern line as the boat drifted back on it and began bashing into the dock. 50,000 pounds of boat bashing up into the dock and this fool is screwing with the stern line and trying to wedge a fender between the dock and the boat which at this point is only secured by the stern line in 25 knot winds.

Ended up rupturing two fenders in addition to the scratch.

Don't sail with drunks.
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Old 08-07-2015, 14:21   #55
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

To Stu Jackson,
I was under the impression that Cruisers Forum was an international forum for sharing knowledge about sailing at large, not just a North American one. I must be wrong, maybe. It's just that people should be treated friendly not like retards offering their help. I've personally been a trauma-orthopaedic surgeon for 27 years and have on numerous occasions offered my help at road accidents, I've never experienced someone denying that help. I've been sailing for 38 years and have often taken a bow line when I could see that the control of the vessel was lost under docking. I dont think I remember a single occasion when that help was not welcome and appreciated. I understand that in USA (I've been working at a level 1 trauma center in Portland) the last thing you want to do is to assist anybody even if they're in very dire straits. Even if you save their lives, they'll probably just sue you for malpractise on discharge from hospital. But that is judicial practise on a perverted scale - - not The Human Bond, you know. Best.
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Old 08-07-2015, 14:42   #56
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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"Holding tank has got pressurised.......please clear the berth side just in case it releases"

Seems to work.
Maybe rig up the mornings left over coffee in a super soaker hidden in the sail cover. If they don't get the point, a quick spurt of the brown stuff will likely get them to move back.

I think some people are getting confused regarding the point. I don't think any of the commentors are offended that people offer help. It's a nice well intentioned thing to do. But they do expect a simple no thank you to be sufficent to get them to back off.

I'll often walk over to offer a hand but if I just sit there and they don't give me something to do, I know to stand clear and I'm fine with it. It does become a problem when the "helper" takes it upon themselves to fix your mistake when no mistake was made.
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Old 08-07-2015, 14:50   #57
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Many of us have been kidding around with this topic or sharing experiences with unwanted and unknowledgeable help. I think we can all recount many offers of help from people who knew what to do or how to follow the captain's directives. I'm pretty sure we've all offered help to other people coming into docks.

There is usually a good deal of friendly support among people on boats. There is also often a lot of good natured humor on the docks. The style of humor may be different in the UK, OZ, Canada, Northern Europe, or here in the colonies. It's all about attitude. It's all good. Life is sweet on a boat.




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Old 08-07-2015, 22:27   #58
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
I have been called the same and worse in a few languages. I remain very alive for the moment.

As for those that feel they must insult those that offer assistance, you reap what you sew.

My hope is that those that enjoy assisting fellow travelers will understand that comments made here are made by those looking to place blame on others.

It is hard to argue with the fact both credit and responsibility fall to the Captain.
I think your last point is the most important one.

I'm really struggling to see why some people are so offended that many of us strongly prefer not to be helped by strangers of unknown competence.

This is not insulting to people who want to help. It doesn't mean all people who want to help are idiots. It just means I have no idea which ones are the idiots and which ones are twice as competent as I am.

More often than I care to admit (especially in our new slip), things go south on us and we're happy to have people who happen to be nearby help us muscle the boat back into position. Most of the time, though, we actually do have it in hand and an unknown helper can unhinge things quickly.

If the responsibility falls to the captain (which it does), then a prudent captain would be very careful about handing control of the docking situation to an unknown person who hasn't been briefed.
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Old 08-07-2015, 23:29   #59
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Fenders are one's first line of defense.





Having easy access to deck near dock level helps a lot also.
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Old 09-07-2015, 00:00   #60
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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I had the same situation with flood tide at Ocean Sailing Academy in Charleston, SC. For cruising/conav courses we used a Hylas 47 and frankly, if class was ending during flood tide, no way would I try putting the boat in her slip. We would simply lay alongside a flat dock at the marina - facing the current - where I could let students disembark. Then enjoy the view while I wait for slack water.

My 2 cents worth.
Coming into the dock at the Navy Base in Charleston after a 6 month deployment our sub had missed slack water. The XO was on his last run on this sub so had the conn. We came in crabbing against the tide and at some speed. When we came in the shadow of the pier the 3 or 4 knot current went away and we took out several pilings. Bit of embarrassment for the XO
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