Common Objects to Defend Your Boat at Sea

[barnakiel]

Sailing, cruising and living aboard ever since 2003.


Never ever needed a weapon onboard. Panama, Brasil, RSA, you name it.


There might be much more danger inside your head than in the real world. Try not to export your attitude to the other parts of the world.



barnakiel

[mako]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

This will sound silly at first but think about it: a loud recording of a large dog barking. If the bad guys intend to go below and steal, if there is a large dog they’re going to have to kill it, and the only safe way to do that is with a gun. No idiot would use a knife to tangle with a dog. So it may just give them consideration to shop elsewhere. Which is the best defense.

I think I saw that episode on All in the Family, with Archie Bunker. It didn’t work out too well

[mako]

The problem with this very controversial thread is that it is asking what you would do if....

Perhaps it would be more helpful if people gave REAL LIFE examples of what weapons or (more likely) improvised weapons were used in previous incidents.

[Franziska]

This!!

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sailing, cruising and living aboard ever since 2003.


Never ever needed a weapon onboard. Panama, Brasil, RSA, you name it.


There might be much more danger inside your head than in the real world. Try not to export your attitude to the other parts of the world.



barnakiel

[s/v Jedi]

Okay, practical info: when unarmed, pacifist etc. you should not go to:

- Saint Lucia (cruisers raped, murdered)
- Saint Vincent (Piracy, Assault, rampant theft)
- Venezuela (war zone, Piracy, murder)
- Nicaragua (Piracy, murder)
- Honduras (Piracy, murder)
- Jamaica (assault, armed robbery, rape, kidnapping)
- Nassau, Bahamas (assault, robbery, rape)
- Dominican Republic (murder, rape)

We skipped (sailed by) Nicaragua and Honduras as risk was too high but visited all the other places and know most of the people attacked there for the period we were there (2003-2019).

[GordMay]

The US State Department travel advisories often provide useful information.
For instance, further to Jedi's warning about Nassau:
➥ https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...Bahamas.html#/

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Okay, practical info: when unarmed, pacifist etc. you should not go to:

- Saint Lucia (cruisers raped, murdered)
- Saint Vincent (Piracy, Assault, rampant theft)
- Venezuela (war zone, Piracy, murder)
- Nicaragua (Piracy, murder)
- Honduras (Piracy, murder)
- Jamaica (assault, armed robbery, rape, kidnapping)
- Nassau, Bahamas (assault, robbery, rape)
- Dominican Republic (murder, rape)

We skipped (sailed by) Nicaragua and Honduras as risk was too high but visited all the other places and know most of the people attacked there for the period we were there (2003-2019).

Remind me not to sail with you.

[Dogscout]

During my working career I worked at a few interesting US DOE and NNSA facilities and was fortunate enough to be on the new product development teams. Our Gov't labs are always looking for new mission and to provide different parts of the Gov't with new capabilities. We also have some interesting scientists that can thinkup and design some amazing stuff, but they have the people skills of an anvil and often cannot do a good job of communicating new ideas.

In any case one day the lead scientist at a facility I worked came to me with a new idea to disperse protestors like we frequently saw at the plant gates. It was a tennis ball sized ball that let out an extremely uncomfortable noise that could be thrown into the unrulely crowd. Wow thats a neat idea I thought and we looked at further development programs. In the end it was never developed further by us. Permanent hearing loss of the protestors is not something that would look good for us.

Now if you chucked one of those balls into an approaching panga, they might run off. might do better than bopping the pirate in the head.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by makobuilders

The problem with this very controversial thread is that it is asking what you would do if....

Perhaps it would be more helpful if people gave REAL LIFE examples of what weapons or (more likely) improvised weapons were used in previous incidents.

My contribution to this?

None.

I’ve had my own weapons, been working aboard mega yachts with true arsenals, yet never had a moment where I needed one.

Same on land.

Haven’t needed a life raft or Sea Tow in my life either.

Have never called the cops in my life.

[charliehows]

bit of a laugh all this self-defense bs; if you have half a brain you'll discover pretty quickly most pirates run marinas and boat repair service industries - good luck holding them up with a full potty.
next on the list - any government - ask the germans recently deported sans vessel from NZ - wonder what their self-defence strategy was...? Generally govt. departments aren't very scared of home made popguns.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

Remind me not to sail with you.

Why do you write that? Because I have my eyes open and see? You rather keeping yours closed and your head in the sand is what brings your travel companions in danger.

You say ignorance is bliss, I say your ignorance is disturbing. Like Gord mentions, all my observations are confirmed by organizations or governments keeping track so factual, not just an opinion. We have seen too many cruisers murdered, also in places that I didn’t even list. We saw friends killed, this is nothing to be joking about.

[GordMay]

... this is nothing to be joking about.

And yet, here I am ...

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

(...)


We have seen too many cruisers murdered,



(...)

So where is it, that you saw many cruisers killed? Which countries or places exactly? Where? An when?



And when a place is so dangerous, why will you insist on going there?


I understand, some places cannot be avoided by a small boat coming from Europe (Panama) on a rtw route. But Americains can sail an rtw from California to Florida - without ever touching at places that are known trouble.


Why go to places that are known to be that dangerous, (and use it as an argument to drag your guns around?).


Why cruise locations that are trouble?



barnakiel

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by GordMay

And yet, here I am ...

I'd never argue with someone who judged that the risks that they faced so low as to not justify the hassles and expenses of carrying a weapon.

They know their risks better than I.

And I very much would argue with anyone who claimed that going armed is an adequate and appropriate means if dealing with risk. Going armed is a part, and only a small party, of dealing with risk.

But to ridicule the idea that there is risk is simply unsupportable.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

So where is it, that you saw many cruisers killed? Which countries or places exactly? Where? An when?

And when a place is so dangerous, why will you insist on going there?

I understand, some places cannot be avoided by a small boat coming from Europe (Panama) on a rtw route. But Americains can sail an rtw from California to Florida - without ever touching at places that are known trouble.

Why go to places that are known to be that dangerous, (and use it as an argument to drag your guns around?).

Why cruise locations that are trouble?

barnakiel

Two cruisers were murdered in Panama, one of them a good friend, another a Frenchman we did not know. They were killed to take their boats, identities, credit cards etc. They caught the murderer just before he could escape into the Darien, he was from Spain.

We did not insist on going there, we were already there. Everyone goes to Panama.

Good friends were attacked on the Rio Dulce in Guatemala. The husband was murdered in front of his wife, then they murdered her too or so they thought, but she survived. They took all their belongings.
We avoided going there even though we had everything planned.

These places were not in the list I posted earlier because they can be considered “incidents”. The places on the list are where these assaults happen frequently. We know many cruisers who were attacked in/near Venezuela. Friends were attacked by pirates twice within one hour! Imagine how p|ssed off the second boarding party was when they found everything was already taken. At that time we were not in Venezuela, nor were these friends. You don’t have to be in Venezuela to be attacked by Venezuelan pirates, they will come to you. Sailing to/from Tobago, Trinidad, Grenada, Bonaire, Curacao, Aruba etc. puts you in their areas. Sailors have been attacked in horrible ways by Venezuelan pirates, some literally hacked in pieces with machetes.

Also, St Lucia, St Vincent & the Grenadines, all places where violent crime is out of control but where everyone goes anyway. In St Lucia, the wife was raped in front of her husband, then the husbands throat slit in front of his wife. Anchored right where all the ARC rally boats go. These were Dutch folks. We did not know about the violence in St Lucia until we were there and I had to fight one off the boat.

I don’t carry guns because of these places, I carry guns for our security regardless of where we are. I feel perfectly safe in the Bahamas, but I carry guns there as well. Fully legal and normal, just like fire extinguishers, first aid kits, epirbs etc. : all gear you hope you don’t need.

Look at commercial shipping: there are plans and drills for all these things, incl. pirate attack. Refusing to consider the scenario is what kills sailors when it happens. Man overboard, fire, sinking, pirate attack: all scenarios that should be planned for.

Edit: explain why you “drag” a first aid kit and fire extinguishers around but refuse to consider weapons? Does refusing to acknowledge safety & security make your cruising experience better?