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Pelagic · 27-01-2017, 19:31

I agree with RPZ's interpretation.

Jurisdiction is location related. Sovereignty is National Registration related as far as to grant free rights to transit with Crew under International protocols.

A perfect example for me was the 5 month period of 1999-2000 Americas Cup in New Zealand where NZ- Immigration, decided they would issue "work visas" for my 16 crew on a Foreign registered Superyacht thus requiring income declarations.

Taking this to the ministerial level, I successfully argued that my crew resided on a foreign ship while in NZ for a sporting event and we should remain under tourist visas.
It was the registration of ship that convinced the minister that they had no right to consider us workers in NZ as my crew lived and worked onboard.

RPZ · 27-01-2017, 19:42

When a foreign flagged vessel is in a country's territorial waters it is usually viewed as concurrent jurisdiction. Whether one or the other nation asserts its jurisdiction in a criminal case is often dependent on the nature of the crime(s), the nationality of the injured party, and sometimes simple diplomacy.

On the high seas on a flagged vessel (or flag carrier aircraft) jursdiction is almost universally the exclusive sovereign right of the flag nation.

helise · 28-01-2017, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPZ

Nothing new to me. No one need to be confused, my original point was, and is, that private boats need not comply with SOLAS etc. Only with the rules of their flag, and the rules of any host country whose waters they enter. And that "international law" is a non secateur when it comes to private vessels on the high seas. My place of birth nor nationality has nothing to do with it. And people should not be confused about the realities when they choose a flag. If they are Mr Joe Average with a 50 foot boat flagged in Langkawi they will not get a license for firearms. It wont happen. That's a fact.

Sorry RPZ,

You are totally wrong! We have 2 units of Hanse 415 sailing yacht with 0.45 Colts on-board.

Please frequent travelling abroad to get an experience of the world and not always thinking about US Laws, US jurisdictions etc. etc....nothing great about US anymore and it's dying! China is rising fast, please wake-up! man....

Have a nice day.......

RPZ · 28-01-2017, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by helise

Sorry RPZ,

You are totally wrong! We have 2 units of Hanse 415 sailing yacht with 0.45 Colts on-board.

Please frequent travelling abroad to get an experience of the world and not always thinking about US Laws, US jurisdictions etc. etc....nothing great about US anymore and it's dying! China is rising fast, please wake-up! man....

Have a nice day.......

I have no doubt you probably do. It is possible to get a license to do so in Malaysia, but not for the average person. That is a fact, and you are misleading people if you are going to give them the impression that ,"all they have to do is get a license". That is not the whole story.

I am somewhat more well traveled than you think, and I do not live in an ivory tower. I have lived in four different countries and worked in three of them for decades at a time. I have held licences for handguns, rifles and shotguns in the United Kingdom and Germany at times over the last 50 years. Not the easiest places to get licenses, but possible even for the average person.

You must be a superb sailor - you really know how to tack. So I will have to concede defeat and I won't be able to catch you.

boatpoker · 28-01-2017, 09:15

Ok, so we have twenty different opinions. Now if we could get 10 lawyers on this thread we could have a hundred different opinions.

My limited (and costly) experience with the law is that there are no guarantees no matter how black letter. You can take ten identical cases to 10 different courts and get 10 different judgements.

MikeFergie · 28-01-2017, 09:30

Pelagic made some interesting comments. To add to that-

- different countries have different import duties on boats. Some countries 10% others 100%. Then you have the vat /sales tax issue. Some countries 4% other 24%. This can easily double the purchase price of a boat and totally over capitalize the value which you will never get a return on.
- some countries only allow nationals from that country to flag a boat with their flag.
- some counties have stringent inspections and annual certification which must be done in their country to keep your boat registered. This extends to certificates of competence to be able to use the vessel. They can also have stringent safety equipment regulations which can become a nightmare.

Whilst I realize most of the people on this site are Americans it does not mean the whole world works like the US. Personally in today's world if I was sailing to anywhere other than the Caribbean I would hesitate to have an American flag in some places of the world. I would rather have some "neutral" insignificant flag that does not attract attention.

My boat is registered in Mauritius

helise · 28-01-2017, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPZ

I have no doubt you probably do. It is possible to get a license to do so in Malaysia, but not for the average person. That is a fact, and you are misleading people if you are going to give them the impression that ,"all they have to do is get a license". That is not the whole story.

I am somewhat more well traveled than you think, and I do not live in an ivory tower. I have lived in four different countries and worked in three of them for decades at a time. I have held licences for handguns, rifles and shotguns in the United Kingdom and Germany at times over the last 50 years. Not the easiest places to get licenses, but possible even for the average person.

You must be a superb sailor - you really know how to tack. So I will have to concede defeat and I won't be able to catch you.

Hello RPZ,

Lived in four different countries and worked for the US Jurisdiction Department or even in the White House does not make you know everything and to be an arrogant American.

I have been travelling for years in more than 150 countries and still learning their rules and regulations. Last week was in Phuket, but now is in St.Croix, US Virgin Islands via Amsterdam and leaving for Bahamas next Tuesday.

Do me a favor, let me know exactly the country/countries that a flare gun for the purpose of distress signal is illegal. As you said earlier, "Now, when you enter the waters of any other country you will be subject to their sovereign laws and jurisdiction. For example in some countries a flare gun ( legal in the U.S. as a distress signal) is illegal".

I hopefully readers are not confused with your words. There are many knowledgeable, smart and well trained people reading these articles.

Good-luck, man.......

helise · 29-01-2017, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeFergie

Pelagic made some interesting comments. To add to that-

- different countries have different import duties on boats. Some countries 10% others 100%. Then you have the vat /sales tax issue. Some countries 4% other 24%. This can easily double the purchase price of a boat and totally over capitalize the value which you will never get a return on.
- some countries only allow nationals from that country to flag a boat with their flag.
- some counties have stringent inspections and annual certification which must be done in their country to keep your boat registered. This extends to certificates of competence to be able to use the vessel. They can also have stringent safety equipment regulations which can become a nightmare.

Whilst I realize most of the people on this site are Americans it does not mean the whole world works like the US. Personally in today's world if I was sailing to anywhere other than the Caribbean I would hesitate to have an American flag in some places of the world. I would rather have some "neutral" insignificant flag that does not attract attention.

My boat is registered in Mauritius

Hi! Mike,

Agreed with you and Pelagic. Langkawi is a yachting heavens. Absolutely tax free. No import taxes, No GST/VAT, income tax or what soever.

Safety equipment regulations as per SOLAS edition 2014 for its size of vessel and are very minimal.

Initial registration is very cheap and fast (Less than USD2K within 15 working days @ Langkawi and you will get the full registration, Call-sign with the Ship Station Radio License (MMSI NO). Annually tonnage taxes very much cheaper (About USD90/annul for below 24 meters and/or 150 grt yacht).

Consider Langkawi International Yacht Registry (LIYR) for your next yacht. You may contact our Agent in Langkawi directly at Info.marine@rocketmail.com, www.facebook.com/LangkawiRegistry and/or Mobile number +6019-7990170 (Captain Joe Abdullah). He's very helpful. Get some advise from him for the scheme called "Malaysia is my 2nd Home" where you can get a long term visa to stay in Malaysia for more than 10 years.

Cheers.....

RPZ · 29-01-2017, 07:22

Helise,

Me arrogant? I'll leave that one alone.

British Virgin Islands now treats flare guns like shotguns - prohibited.

masonc · 29-01-2017, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPZ

Helise,

Me arrogant? I'll leave that one alone.

British Virgin Islands now treats flare guns like shotguns - prohibited.

So what do all the boats do when they arrive there?

RPZ · 29-01-2017, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonc

So what do all the boats do when they arrive there?

Probably like most countries, declare them to customs as you would firearms.

masonc · 29-01-2017, 09:38

So all boats visiting all countries declare their flare guns as firearms?

RPZ · 29-01-2017, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonc

So all boats visiting ask countries declare their flare guns as firearms?

This is one of those "know before you go" issues. The most prudent thing to do is contact the embassy or consulate well in advance of your trip.

I recommend in writing, as in paper and typed ink. You will then get a hardcopy reply for retention. Ask for an up to date list of all prohibited items, AND which of those items will simply be held til departure, or sealed on your boat.

This as opposed to "declaring" something prohibited, only to find out you go directly to jail because the country a) does not consider your flagged vessel foreign territory b) as soon as you enter their 12 territorial waters with such an item you have committed a serious crime.

Mexico is such a country. If you enter their territorial waters with any firearm, regardless of intention to declare, you will spend a long time one of their national health spas, lose your boat and every thing in it.

Not all countries (actually I believe it is just a few that do) class flare guns as firearms, but they still may be prohibited. Spear guns are prohibited in some too.

masonc · 29-01-2017, 09:59

Are spear guns prohibited? Or is the use of spear guns prohibited?
From my experience in the Caribbean islands, non-belongers are not allowed to spear fish. I don't think they are prohibited from having spear guns on board while they visit. In Anguilla, using jet-skis is illegal, but many of the megayacht have them onboard. It would not be reasonable to expect boaters to find a place to unload their equipment while they transit or stop-over.