How bad does this engine look?

[SSgtPitt]

I have a Cape Dory, so I'm a little prejudiced. They are strongly built boats and hold their value if well maintained. This one though needs some love and a lot of elbow grease. $29K is not realistic.

[odeapt]

I spoke with the mechanic and he is currently replacing the water pump. He told me the motor runs great; maybe he was just telling me that for future business... but I am going to go look at it when it is running. He said he did some kind of torque test, idk how exactly it works. He also told me the coolant pH was good.

The owner also has the bottom cleaned every month and replaces zincs often. It was last painted in 2011 so it probably needs a new paint job too.

The boat was originally listed for like $55k a year ago so maybe the owner thinks or knows its in better shape than it looks.

If the motor runs nice then I think im going to make an offer for the 29k, with the condition that the owner pays for a new bottom barrier coat and paint when I haul the boat out for the survey. (Assuming the survey doesn't find anything detrimental).

[SSgtPitt]

A surveyor properly trained in the use and interpretation of thermal imaging can go a long way in showing defects in the hull......hot spots in the engine too.
Good luck with the boat, Cape Dory's are serious off shore vessels.
Check out SV Far Reach, he gutted and rebuilt a CD36 and he photo journaled a ton of it.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by odeapt

I spoke with the mechanic and he is currently replacing the water pump. He told me the motor runs great; maybe he was just telling me that for future business... but I am going to go look at it when it is running. He said he did some kind of torque test, idk how exactly it works. He also told me the coolant pH was good.

The owner also has the bottom cleaned every month and replaces zincs often. It was last painted in 2011 so it probably needs a new paint job too.

The boat was originally listed for like $55k a year ago so maybe the owner thinks or knows its in better shape than it looks.

If the motor runs nice then I think im going to make an offer for the 29k, with the condition that the owner pays for a new bottom barrier coat and paint when I haul the boat out for the survey. (Assuming the survey doesn't find anything detrimental).

JMHO, I believe 29K is crazy.

[Scout 30]

There are 7 Cape Dory 33s currently listed on Yachtworld ranging from $19,900 to $59,900. The average list price is $40,364 & the median is $36,450. One boat, listed at $39,000, is pending & it has a new Beta 25. All of these listings are on the mainland.

Clearly the subject's list price is within range. Personally I wouldn't complicate the transaction with a barrier coat. If there is a blister issue the boat needs to sit out for a awhile & the seller won't handle that. Either way I think it's reasonable to expect any seller to come down 10% & I would offer no more than that assuming that the motor ends up running well & the sails & rigging are in serviceable condition. I would be very tempted to offer less & then come up to 10% if necessary but I have not met the seller & I doubt there are many Cape Dorys for sale in Hawaii.

[redsky49]

Do you have cash? If so, offer $24,500, maybe finally settling at $26-27,000 or so. The initial offer cannot insult the seller, but also needs to get them excited that they have a potential sale. Delicate balance needed here. Your interests versus theirs.

Place no conditions on the offer except survey and sea trial. Keep it simple and straightforward.

You will find issues at the survey, and they will likely become a negotiation issue. If you are asking for more than a thousand $ price adjustment, the owner may refuse. A bit of a gamble.

Even if the engine surveys well. I would pull it, or at least jack it up to address the engine bed. They look to be rusted steel. I would then remove all rust, replace all hoses, new zincs, alternator, check all wiring, filters, heat exchanger, etc. etc. Finally re-paint the color of choice.

I did something similar several years ago for a generator. So much easier to work on, mounted on a little rolling platform, in the comfort of your garage or work space. You will also do a better job.

Good luck!

P.S. I looked again at the engine pic. Way in the back, attached to the rear of the coolant reservoir is a section of threaded galvanized pipe. Galvanized pipe has absolutely no place on a boat. Doesn't belong in your house either. Replace the elbow, straight section, etc. Better yet, see if your surveyor points it out. Behind the galv. pipe appears to be the waterlift muffler. It also looks as if the hose is new. Hmm.... So too is the coolant hose at the front of the coolant reservoir. Also looks like more rust/corrosion at the front of the engine - not so much at the stern end.

Let us know what happens.

[kmacdonald]

Get a friend to loosen em up with a $7000 offer first. Then offer $10000.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Get a friend to loosen em up with a $7000 offer first. Then offer $10000.

+1

[TrentePieds]

Now you're talkin' :-0)!!!

TrentePieds

[odeapt]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Do you have cash? If so, offer $24,500, maybe finally settling at $26-27,000 or so. The initial offer cannot insult the seller, but also needs to get them excited that they have a potential sale. Delicate balance needed here. Your interests versus theirs.

Place no conditions on the offer except survey and sea trial. Keep it simple and straightforward.

You will find issues at the survey, and they will likely become a negotiation issue. If you are asking for more than a thousand $ price adjustment, the owner may refuse. A bit of a gamble.

Even if the engine surveys well. I would pull it, or at least jack it up to address the engine bed. They look to be rusted steel. I would then remove all rust, replace all hoses, new zincs, alternator, check all wiring, filters, heat exchanger, etc. etc. Finally re-paint the color of choice.

I did something similar several years ago for a generator. So much easier to work on, mounted on a little rolling platform, in the comfort of your garage or work space. You will also do a better job.

Good luck!

P.S. I looked again at the engine pic. Way in the back, attached to the rear of the coolant reservoir is a section of threaded galvanized pipe. Galvanized pipe has absolutely no place on a boat. Doesn't belong in your house either. Replace the elbow, straight section, etc. Better yet, see if your surveyor points it out. Behind the galv. pipe appears to be the waterlift muffler. It also looks as if the hose is new. Hmm.... So too is the coolant hose at the front of the coolant reservoir. Also looks like more rust/corrosion at the front of the engine - not so much at the stern end.

Let us know what happens.

So what issues would you say to walk away from the sale? Would a little bit of blistering be enough to break the deal?

I don't mind having to replace small things throughout the boat; I think I would feel much more comfortable sailing knowing how everything works instead of having everything be new from the start, even if it costs a little more. I'm just trying to avoid detrimental costs like having to replace the entire diesel.

It sounds like the owners took good care of the boat before the husband died. They replaced/had inspected the chainplates, replaced standing rigging, new sails; they currently have the bottom cleaned every month.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by odeapt

So what issues would you say to walk away from the sale? Would a little bit of blistering be enough to break the deal?

I don't mind having to replace small things throughout the boat; I think I would feel much more comfortable sailing knowing how everything works instead of having everything be new from the start, even if it costs a little more. I'm just trying to avoid detrimental costs like having to replace the entire diesel.

It sounds like the owners took good care of the boat before the husband died. They replaced/had inspected the chainplates, replaced standing rigging, new sails; they currently have the bottom cleaned every month.

A few blisters is not a big deal. I do my own bottom jobs including blister repair. It's kind of labor intensive but not really hard. West Systems has a free technical manual for this. Basically you just grind out the delaminations until you get to good glass & then fill it back in with layers of glass & thickened epoxy. If they're small, say dime or quarter size, they'll typically be pretty shallow & you won't need glass. Personally I'd be more worried about the motor, sails, rigging & especially saturated deck or cabin cores. Don't count on your surveyor to find everything. You need to spend as much time a possible going over the boat. Look for any signs of fresh water leaks in the ceiling & around the ports. These types of repairs can be very time consuming.

[redsky49]

So what issues would you say to walk away from the sale? Would a little bit of blistering be enough to break the deal?

Start with a good surveyor!

Take your time while aboard.

Trust your senses, especially smell.

Start a "to do" list. Understand though that boat projects cost more, and take longer, regardless who performs the work.

Things I would walk away from:

Wet decks, if more than just a very small area
Any delamination of the hull. Minor blisters, no problem
Wet bulkheads and/or substantial broken tabbing
Any evidence of prior water above the floor boards
Leaks at the deck/hull joint
Mast cracks or bends (though some will disagree)
Poor sailing performance
Cabin ceiling too short (head bump)/berths too small, etc. for your needs
Or simply too many repairs to meet your standards and to be seaworthy

You know upfront that the engine is an issue (dollar amount ___). How many other big ticket items can you afford? The surveyor will help you with ballpark numbers, as well as ranking the repairs into "Do Immediately", "Do It Relatively Soon" priorities.

Do you have the time, the money and the expertise and desire, to do a lot of the work yourself?

Is it acceptable to consider this a several year project, or do you need instant gratification?

If it was me in your shoes, and I could get the seller down to $20K or less, I would jump on it. At that price you could take a hit (engine is toast, for example), put $15-20,000 (plus sweat equity) in it, and not be underwater on the investment. That is assuming no other major issues, and I have the experience (and the time) to do 90% of the work myself. Do you?

Your call.

[SimonV]

That engine looks like a swimmer,

[Celestialsailor]

I'm sorry but to my eyes, this tells me how he maintains the rest of the boat. Even if my engine was dead and going to be replaced, I would never let it get this bad looking.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I'm sorry but to my eyes, this tells me how he maintains the rest of the boat. Even if my engine was dead and going to be replaced, I would never let it get this bad looking.

I head what you're saying, and yet, it's the man's widow, now, who is selling the boat, and apparently, he hadn't been able to work on it for a long time. If that's galvanized pipe, not just non-polished s/s, that's unusual, but I can imagine someone whose expensive s/s pitted out fast, might give galvo a try. So, I am not certain this one is necessarily a disaster.

It is for the OP to evaluate his DIY skills, available time for a project like this might be, and bargaining skills, especially if the engine's problems are merely cosmetic, having been salt water drenched. He has a good surveyor to help, too.

Ann