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Old 12-10-2012, 09:08   #136
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Do some research on the little town of Gulfport and you will find that there are no sewage treatment plants there. I'm quite sure if we had raw sewage pumping into that water the beach would be closed, as the water is tested here regularly (and some beaches are closed periodically because the count is too high). There is nothing new in this problem, but

it's not an issue in Gulfport.

That's why I believe the problem of boat waste -- if it even exists here -- could be dealt with.

It IS the big concern here, because one of the things the Gulfport beach has going for it is that it is so far away from that type of contamination.

Accidental spills have happened here in both the Hillsborough River and the Manatee River, but not anywhere the area in discussion.
Did some research on the little town of Gulfport. There ARE treatment plants (of course). Harrison County Utility Authority

Any guesses as to where they discharge?


Rainwater intrudes into every aging Sanitary Sewer system, no matter how carefully it was built. There are many companies in business to inspect, and re-line aging sewer pipes without replacing them. The cost is ridiculous, and many municipalities spend just enough to keep the Feds off their backs.

A treatment plant near Chattanooga TN released a huge "accidental release" a while back that contaminated the river system all the way to Mobile Bay. This happens all the time. If every boat on the system simultaneously pumped out a full tank, they could not even approach the volume of this one release.



Regulation is not the answer, lest we all end up like St, Pete, Fl., where it is illegal to spend the night on your boat tied to your dock within the City Limits.




We all have anchors, if the Captain Jay's of the world offend you, weigh yours and move to another patch of the huge globe. I thought that was what cruising was all about anyway. If we are going to make it about owning and controlling the water, we may just as well stay on land, and buy a condo, they have lots and lots of rules for everyone and everything.


Anyway, just knew the feces in Gulfport didn't magically disappear.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:14   #137
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Well put. I am amazed at the huge percentage of people who get all worked up over the presidential elections, but haven't got the faintest clue about the people who are running in their local mayoral, city council, or county commission races.

Your town's mayor has FAR more influence over your day-to-day life than the president can ever hope to have. These are the races, and the politics, that you should REALLY be concerned with!
Well I agree with much of what you say but my mayor (small NE town) cannot raise my taxes without a direct vote from me. The President (via Congress) can raise my taxes to any level they want. That does affect me directly.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:20   #138
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Did some research on the little town of Gulfport. There ARE treatment plants (of course). Harrison County Utility Authority

Anyway, just knew the feces in Gulfport didn't magically disappear.
They ship them to Mississippi?
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:39   #139
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Did some research on the little town of Gulfport. There ARE treatment plants (of course). Harrison County Utility Authority
Umm, wrong Gulfport!

Gulfport, FL gets their water treated by Pinellas County.

Not that your point was less valid though. Most water treatment facilities have discharge, run-off, etc...

There are also broken sewer lines and pet waste that gets washed into the bay and surrounding areas. Plus other plants that spill and get washed into Tampa Bay and surrounding areas. They are all sharing the same water.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:42   #140
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Regulation is not the answer, lest we all end up like St, Pete, Fl., where it is illegal to spend the night on your boat tied to your dock within the City Limits.
Huh? Where did you pull that one out from?

St. Pete, FL has a huge municipal marina that allows liveaboards!
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:49   #141
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

Maine-
"Correct me if I am wrong but ..."
*No anchor light" No one is required to have an anchor light, unless they are someplace like a designated anchorage where use of the light is required. Jay's in Florida, a rather young state with a Spanish heritage that hasn't quite joined the rest of the US in many ways. The regulated anchorages of Nieu Yngland would totally mystify Floridians.

"*Raw Sewage ... PROOF of pump out with receipts." Nope, that's gonna be an expensive mistake after the courts remind everyone that you can simply hop outside the three-mile limit, dumo, and come home. A two hour cruise (whoa, gilligan!) and no receipts needed.

"*Vessel unfit for use = The USCG has the ability to condemn vessels" Yeah, mention that to your local district office and watch the faces pucker up. They condemn, the case goes to the courts, kaching, there goes the budget for the year and they're all going to be very unhappy campers. They don't want to get that kind of bad press unless someone is, say, taking a dozen cherubs out to sea during shark season.

"State registration, excise tax, sales tax or documentation = These all make the boat "illegal" if not complied with. " And again, there's the court process to go through when asset seizure is up for discussion. (Memo to Sperry, come out with a line of hob-nailed Topsiders just for jack-booted thugs and people accused ofbeing same.)

"Florida ARV Law = Since 2010..." What, did that one finish goingthrough the courts? I had the impression that everything to do with anchoring, junkers, damned liberals and yankees not knowing their place, was still slowly being tossed back and forth in Floriduh. As the "new" Archbishop of Miami said in his inaugurial address about 2-3 years ago, he was so pleased to be appointed to someplace so close to the United States. (Honest. He got a great crowd reaction to that, too.)

Bottom line, there's no way for anyone to do anything that isn't going to cost lots of money and generate lots of bad press. Their best bet is to hope for one late hurricane to "solve" the matter. Or to let enough public outcry happen so that someone donates the money for Jay to go circumnavigating.

But doing anything at taxpayer expense?! Maine, honest, it's Floriduh, and if they spent money, they'd have to raise taxes! There's something to be said about not raising taxes. You know, the way some states don't waste money on guardrails on mountain roads? Or for that matter, on building roads at all?
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:20   #142
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

As a novo anchor out, the issues are not so bad. Dilution really is the solution. It works pretty much everywhere. Well except for the US, so I hear.

BTW I went to the pump out dock this morning and pumped out. Lucky me I live in cali, where about half the pump out locations are free 24/7. I've never had a receipt either.

Take the boat away and you have another homeless person on the street. Nether the problems nor the costs go away.

Plus its actually pretty hard to take away a low cost boat from someone who uses it as a home and is poor. Civil Law in the US pretty much limits how much you can take from someone. Really for those without a lot there is not a lot that can legally be done. Lucky its not a crime to be poor in the US (yet).
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:23   #143
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Maine-
"Correct me if I am wrong but ..."
*No anchor light" No one is required to have an anchor light, unless they are someplace like a designated anchorage where use of the light is required.
Correct me if I am wrong, but - isn't that exactly backwards?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:24   #144
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Correct me if I am wrong, but - isn't that exactly backwards?
Well I am so happy to say that you are both correct (in parts) at certain times....

If you are less then 20 meters in length AND in a special anchorage area designated by THE SECRETARY (not just any secretary) then you do not have to have a light....

otherwise....

According to US Homeland Security (of which the Coast Guard is but a part....) we have the following:

RULE 30: ANCHORED VESSELS AND VESSELS AGROUND

Rule 30
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, if practicable, [Inld] where they can best be seen;

two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

(g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule.
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Old 12-10-2012, 22:14   #145
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

The guy is a friggin bum with feces all over the deck of his floating wreck of a home that used to be called a boat. I really have no idea how it is some of you are considering him a mariner, boater, or sailor. This isn't some sojourner. He's a societal leech.
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Old 12-10-2012, 22:46   #146
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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The guy is a friggin bum with feces all over the deck of his floating wreck of a home that used to be called a boat. I really have no idea how it is some of you are considering him a mariner, boater, or sailor. This isn't some sojourner. He's a societal leech.
Oh no question he's got a wee small bit of a hygiene issue and yes he's a bum. Put him off the boat, and now you've moved the hygiene issues onto the shore and have one more homeless bum to deal with too. Not really solving the problem. Lots O folks homeless and otherwise with mental issues. No I don't think Capt'n jay will be on my Christmas list, but there but for the grace of god go I. Hum come to think about it I might be a societal leech too. Though without that hygiene issue...

I'm a nicer leech I'm guessing
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Old 12-10-2012, 22:56   #147
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by Custom30 View Post
Did some research on the little town of Gulfport. There ARE treatment plants (of course). Harrison County Utility Authority

Any guesses as to where they discharge?


Rainwater intrudes into every aging Sanitary Sewer system, no matter how carefully it was built. There are many companies in business to inspect, and re-line aging sewer pipes without replacing them. The cost is ridiculous, and many municipalities spend just enough to keep the Feds off their backs.

A treatment plant near Chattanooga TN released a huge "accidental release" a while back that contaminated the river system all the way to Mobile Bay. This happens all the time. If every boat on the system simultaneously pumped out a full tank, they could not even approach the volume of this one release.



Regulation is not the answer, lest we all end up like St, Pete, Fl., where it is illegal to spend the night on your boat tied to your dock within the City Limits.




We all have anchors, if the Captain Jay's of the world offend you, weigh yours and move to another patch of the huge globe. I thought that was what cruising was all about anyway. If we are going to make it about owning and controlling the water, we may just as well stay on land, and buy a condo, they have lots and lots of rules for everyone and everything.


Anyway, just knew the feces in Gulfport didn't magically disappear.

"Did some research on the little town of Gulfport. There ARE treatment plants (of course). Harrison County Utility Authority"


You got the wrong "Gulfport."
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:36   #148
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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The guy is a friggin bum with feces all over the deck of his floating wreck of a home that used to be called a boat. I really have no idea how it is some of you are considering him a mariner, boater, or sailor. This isn't some sojourner. He's a societal leech.
not all problems of people on a boat are boating problems
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:59   #149
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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The term for sewage overflow is "unplanned release." Yes, it happens so often there is terminology. In my neighborhood, for at least 20 years. Or so the REPORTS to the local Dept of Env Quality say. Yes, it's even documented, and nothing is done. E.coli, anyone?
Sadly this happens on our side of the pond too and like Gulfport its going into estuarys used by thousands of folk for water activities. and they are allowed to do it.

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Old 13-10-2012, 07:07   #150
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Oh no question he's got a wee small bit of a hygiene issue and yes he's a bum. Put him off the boat, and now you've moved the hygiene issues onto the shore and have one more homeless bum to deal with too. Not really solving the problem.
In a way, it DOES solve some of the problem.
  1. It removes a derelict vessel that raises the ire of the landlubber law makers
  2. There is a lot more resource for the homeless shore-side
  3. It removes a hazard to the other boats in the anchorage
  4. Mental Health services are available shore-side
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