Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

I don't know about the advise from your CG man, this is from a "Special Notice to Mariners" by the 1st CG district, US:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Na...nforcement.PDF

Coast Guard vessels may have their running lights extinguished at night while conducting law enforcement operations. Running lights, if off, will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.

They might well be closer than a mile without any lights and they do change course when you do...

That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.

Understood, and even agreed. But the point I am trying to make: The law enforcement vessel might behave like a suspicious vessel.

EDIT: And if they think you might be smuggling drugs, they are having their fingers on the trigger. It is an uncomfortable situation for them too.

[vintageray]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

I don't know about the advise from your CG man, this is from a "Special Notice to Mariners" by the 1st CG district, US:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Na...nforcement.PDF

Coast Guard vessels may have their running lights extinguished at night while conducting law enforcement operations. Running lights, if off, will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.

They might well be closer than a mile without any lights and they do change course when you do...

I think my friend was talking about a daylight situation where one could tell that they were really in danger and see what they were attempting to deter. He's not a flake, rode an ice breaker for years and been sailing almost since a toddler. Knows his stuff.

[BojanglesIV]

It would be nice if there was some kind of compelling statistic that told us whether we should have guns on board and when we should use them.

However, incidents like Matt Rutherford's and Peter Blake's (and others) are sufficiently uncommon that it's impossible to come up with any compelling arguments one way or the others.

Personally, I'm in the 'no guns on board' camp and I'm comfortable with that. Folks can argue one way or the other until they're blue in the face, but I doubt that there is any compelling data one way or the other.

(By comparison, there is fairly compelling evidence that free and unfettered access to firearms ashore leads to increased gun deaths, but I'm not sure that that transfers to sea. I suspect it does, but I lack the data to make that case)

Cheers,
Colin

[deckofficer]

Ironically, look what just appeared on CF's ever changing picture header. Do they have it set up like the advertisers, when a topic is being discussed, relevant pictures appear?? lol



The topic of this picture was "Boarded by the Mexican Navy"

[LeaseOnLife]

Only on a catamaran, with a Rocna anchor

What country are they from, any clues?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by vintageray

He's not a flake, rode an ice breaker for years and been sailing almost since a toddler. Knows his stuff.

One does not automatically prove the other.

I know a guy who is fantastic on a boat who has also been sailing since a child and has built large boats and run them as a business.
He knows his stuff.

Unfortunately he is also as mad as a cut snake and a hopeless alcoholic.
I find it hard to trust him on anything any more.

[vintageray]

It is a tough call. I don't have guns onboard now, but haven't traveled outside U.S. waters. The elderly couple I bought my boat from cruised the Carribean and South america for ten years straight. The lady surprised me when she said that they had always had a shotgun and a pistol onboard. I'm headed for Panama, Central America next year and I don't like the idea of the hassles involved with guns onboard. Maybe a cannon.....

[avb3]

Originally Posted by BojanglesIV

It would be nice if there was some kind of compelling statistic that told us whether we should have guns on board and when we should use them. .............

Cheers,
Colin

Matt Rutherford originally had the shotgun along to protect against polar bears as he was going through the Northwest Passage, a prudent choice.

It appears it may well have been a prudent choice in defusing the threatening actions of the other boat.

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I heard an interesting story from the wife of a Brazilian fisherman the other day. He came home from a week out on the boat and told her that on the last night, after they had pulled in their gear and were heading home, they saw a sailing boat in the dark. It was barely moving so they circled it to see if it was OK. Then, just as they were about to pull away having seen nothing, all the lights came on, so they went back to make sure the guy didn't need any assistance.
Well bugger me, next thing they knew he was firing at them, for no reason at all. They high tailed it out of there, but her husband swears if he ever sees another sailing boat out there he'll ram it and sink it without hesitation.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by avb3

It appears it may well have been a prudent choice in defusing the threatening actions of the other boat.

So thats a vote for shooting at anything YOU deem as threatening?

May I suggest that if they were actually armed boarders, shooting a shotty at them could have been the catalyst that had them open up as well.
Just ask Peter Blake.
Oh wait

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.

I agree with a lot that has been said on both sides. But should it be a coast guard or law enforcement vessel that is sneaking up on you in the dark, I am sure a call on ch16 advising the vessel approaching that you have concerns for you safety that if they don't identify them selves you will have no choice but to open fire. I bet they will identify themselves quick smart.

[bobconnie]

First off I always in the past carried firearms on any vessel I was in charge of. Over the years of cruiseing ive had a problem or two in other countrys. As I no longer like problems, I no longer carry firearms aboard. With this said, I do carry serveral Flare guns aboard, a world war One 12 inch barrel 10 gauge, and a couple of 12 gauge flare guns one of which shoots 3 1/2 in 12 gauge shells, Now these are legal EVERYWHERE ! My wife and family Are Very Important to me so I carry Life saving equipment of ALL Types !! Just my 2 cents

[Bash]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Not fair, he describes a boat circiling him in deep water. Have you had this experience? This is not normal praxtice, not seamonship by any stretch and could be called hostile or threatening by any defitition.

I was actually circled once. First light, light air, and I was singlehanding. Only a few miles offshore. I was only making a couple knots and had been dozing in the cockpit. A trawler traveling my reciprocal course passed me port-to-port, his wake awakening me, and then circled back around. Not fishing, but definitely a work boat of some sort.

I hailed him as he was coming up alongside. I have to admit I was a bit disconcerted at that point. I grabbed a winch handle.

Turns out that was fascinated by the bike rack I'd had welded on the pushpit. This was on a previous boat that didn't have davits. It suspended the bikes vertically, in such a way that the saddles were facing astern.

The dude was only trying to get a better look.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

With this said, I do carry serveral Flare guns aboard, a world war One 12 inch barrel 10 gauge, and a couple of 12 gauge flare guns one of which shoots 3 1/2 in 12 gauge shells, Now these are legal EVERYWHERE !

Wow, they are even allowed in Australia.

I am sure they never used to be allowed.
firearms and weapons
add, I did just read elsewhere that 12 gauge are illegal here as they may take a 12 gauge shotty cartridge.
Plastic gun, shotgun cartridge, BOOM.