Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-03-2012, 18:16   #46
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife View Post
I don't know about the advise from your CG man, this is from a "Special Notice to Mariners" by the 1st CG district, US:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Na...nforcement.PDF

Coast Guard vessels may have their running lights extinguished at night while conducting law enforcement operations. Running lights, if off, will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.


They might well be closer than a mile without any lights and they do change course when you do...
That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.
__________________

__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:23   #47
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,046
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.
Understood, and even agreed. But the point I am trying to make: The law enforcement vessel might behave like a suspicious vessel.

EDIT: And if they think you might be smuggling drugs, they are having their fingers on the trigger. It is an uncomfortable situation for them too.
__________________

__________________
LeaseOnLife is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:24   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Far East Mariner 40
Posts: 303
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife View Post
I don't know about the advise from your CG man, this is from a "Special Notice to Mariners" by the 1st CG district, US:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Na...nforcement.PDF

Coast Guard vessels may have their running lights extinguished at night while conducting law enforcement operations. Running lights, if off, will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.

They might well be closer than a mile without any lights and they do change course when you do...
I think my friend was talking about a daylight situation where one could tell that they were really in danger and see what they were attempting to deter. He's not a flake, rode an ice breaker for years and been sailing almost since a toddler. Knows his stuff.
__________________
I do all my own stunts.
vintageray is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:29   #49
Registered User
 
BojanglesIV's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Boat: Gulfstar 50 Ketch
Posts: 105
Send a message via Skype™ to BojanglesIV
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

It would be nice if there was some kind of compelling statistic that told us whether we should have guns on board and when we should use them.

However, incidents like Matt Rutherford's and Peter Blake's (and others) are sufficiently uncommon that it's impossible to come up with any compelling arguments one way or the others.

Personally, I'm in the 'no guns on board' camp and I'm comfortable with that. Folks can argue one way or the other until they're blue in the face, but I doubt that there is any compelling data one way or the other.

(By comparison, there is fairly compelling evidence that free and unfettered access to firearms ashore leads to increased gun deaths, but I'm not sure that that transfers to sea. I suspect it does, but I lack the data to make that case)

Cheers,
Colin
__________________
BojanglesIV is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:31   #50
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Ironically, look what just appeared on CF's ever changing picture header. Do they have it set up like the advertisers, when a topic is being discussed, relevant pictures appear?? lol



The topic of this picture was "Boarded by the Mexican Navy"
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:32   #51
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,046
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Only on a catamaran, with a Rocna anchor

What country are they from, any clues?
__________________
LeaseOnLife is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:34   #52
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageray View Post
He's not a flake, rode an ice breaker for years and been sailing almost since a toddler. Knows his stuff.
One does not automatically prove the other.

I know a guy who is fantastic on a boat who has also been sailing since a child and has built large boats and run them as a business.
He knows his stuff.

Unfortunately he is also as mad as a cut snake and a hopeless alcoholic.
I find it hard to trust him on anything any more.
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:43   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Far East Mariner 40
Posts: 303
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

It is a tough call. I don't have guns onboard now, but haven't traveled outside U.S. waters. The elderly couple I bought my boat from cruised the Carribean and South america for ten years straight. The lady surprised me when she said that they had always had a shotgun and a pistol onboard. I'm headed for Panama, Central America next year and I don't like the idea of the hassles involved with guns onboard. Maybe a cannon.....
__________________
I do all my own stunts.
vintageray is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:47   #54
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by BojanglesIV View Post
It would be nice if there was some kind of compelling statistic that told us whether we should have guns on board and when we should use them. .............

Cheers,
Colin
Matt Rutherford originally had the shotgun along to protect against polar bears as he was going through the Northwest Passage, a prudent choice.

It appears it may well have been a prudent choice in defusing the threatening actions of the other boat.
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:51   #55
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,046
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
I heard an interesting story from the wife of a Brazilian fisherman the other day. He came home from a week out on the boat and told her that on the last night, after they had pulled in their gear and were heading home, they saw a sailing boat in the dark. It was barely moving so they circled it to see if it was OK. Then, just as they were about to pull away having seen nothing, all the lights came on, so they went back to make sure the guy didn't need any assistance.
Well bugger me, next thing they knew he was firing at them, for no reason at all. They high tailed it out of there, but her husband swears if he ever sees another sailing boat out there he'll ram it and sink it without hesitation.
__________________
LeaseOnLife is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 18:59   #56
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
It appears it may well have been a prudent choice in defusing the threatening actions of the other boat.
So thats a vote for shooting at anything YOU deem as threatening?

May I suggest that if they were actually armed boarders, shooting a shotty at them could have been the catalyst that had them open up as well.
Just ask Peter Blake.
Oh wait
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 19:00   #57
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
That is the problem when the CG has to take on the dual role of cop and rescue. I think they should get out of the cop role, then no misunderstandings.
I agree with a lot that has been said on both sides. But should it be a coast guard or law enforcement vessel that is sneaking up on you in the dark, I am sure a call on ch16 advising the vessel approaching that you have concerns for you safety that if they don't identify them selves you will have no choice but to open fire. I bet they will identify themselves quick smart.
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 19:12   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

First off I always in the past carried firearms on any vessel I was in charge of. Over the years of cruiseing ive had a problem or two in other countrys. As I no longer like problems, I no longer carry firearms aboard. With this said, I do carry serveral Flare guns aboard, a world war One 12 inch barrel 10 gauge, and a couple of 12 gauge flare guns one of which shoots 3 1/2 in 12 gauge shells, Now these are legal EVERYWHERE ! My wife and family Are Very Important to me so I carry Life saving equipment of ALL Types !! Just my 2 cents
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 19:16   #59
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Not fair, he describes a boat circiling him in deep water. Have you had this experience? This is not normal praxtice, not seamonship by any stretch and could be called hostile or threatening by any defitition.
I was actually circled once. First light, light air, and I was singlehanding. Only a few miles offshore. I was only making a couple knots and had been dozing in the cockpit. A trawler traveling my reciprocal course passed me port-to-port, his wake awakening me, and then circled back around. Not fishing, but definitely a work boat of some sort.

I hailed him as he was coming up alongside. I have to admit I was a bit disconcerted at that point. I grabbed a winch handle.

Turns out that was fascinated by the bike rack I'd had welded on the pushpit. This was on a previous boat that didn't have davits. It suspended the bikes vertically, in such a way that the saddles were facing astern.

The dude was only trying to get a better look.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply
Old 07-03-2012, 19:19   #60
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
With this said, I do carry serveral Flare guns aboard, a world war One 12 inch barrel 10 gauge, and a couple of 12 gauge flare guns one of which shoots 3 1/2 in 12 gauge shells, Now these are legal EVERYWHERE !
Wow, they are even allowed in Australia.

I am sure they never used to be allowed.
firearms and weapons
add, I did just read elsewhere that 12 gauge are illegal here as they may take a 12 gauge shotty cartridge.
Plastic gun, shotgun cartridge, BOOM.
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project knottybuoyz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1329 28-08-2017 14:26
What's it Going to Be ? Red or Green LED Compass Light ? Wireless1 Navigation 49 23-03-2012 15:57
Near Disaster with Brass Used in Below Waterline Plumbing BambooSailor Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 39 09-03-2012 04:05
For Sale: SD40 Saildrive Yanmar working used Best offer UnoMas Classifieds Archive 0 06-03-2012 07:28
from Cape Verde to Brazil, who has done it? terradagua Navigation 1 05-03-2012 17:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.