How expired is this liferaft?

[Dockhead]

Well.


If what you pay for it + the cost of servicing it = the cost of a new raft then obviously this is stupid.


HOWEVER, some good quality life rafts last for a very long time. So I don't think the plan is necessarily stupid -- it depends on the raft.


If I were you, I would look for something like this:


1. Quality brand (Avon, Switlick, etc.). No cheap stuff.

2. Less than 20 years old (preferably much less).
3. Reasonable price -- not more than $500.
4. Seller agrees you can test it and return it no questions asked, if it doesn't hold air.


Then, inflate it and leave it for a couple of days, bounce around in it, and see for yourself whether the seams have integrity.



I don't think there is any magic about servicing them and I would gladly do mine myself, except (a) I need the document; and (b) the labor cost for servicing in the Solent is only £150. If you are not required carry, and servicing is very expensive, I would figure out how to do it, and do it myself, personally.


What you won't be able to do is to hydro test the cylinder, but a dive shop can do that.


The most important thing about servicing life rafts is to be absolutely sure that the seams are holding and WILL hold in case, God forbid, you need the raft. I actually think that an intelligent owner could do a better job with this than a service station because you have more time to observe the raft.

[sveinung]

Besides the seams and tank, another step of the raft service is to replace all the perishables (water, emergency food, flares, emergency dye, batteries for light etc).
The food and flares you can probably throw out and rather keep in a go bag, same with food and water.

For servicing the tank, hydrostatic tests are becoming less common for scuba tanks, both for air and nitrox.
A visual inspection usually reveals what you're most interested in: rust and corrosion. This is usually from filling on bad compressors with humid air which isn't a problem for a raft that's filled maybe three times in its life.

A visual inspection is as simple as letting the air out, take the valves off using a big wrench, thoroughly inspect the inside walls do the tank for rust or discoloration. Replace the O ring between the tank neck and the valve, assemble, pressurize and do the same in two years time.

Filling scuba tanks with bad air, or leaving them without pressure kills them, just sitting with dry air does not.*

*) What I would do, but a shop would do the same for $30 and fill it at the same time. You'd even get a sticker with the "hydro" date!

[hellosailor]

"Dinghy is looking better all of the time."
Except, with no ballast pockets, a dinghy would flunk one of the major required criteria for life rafts these days. No problem, as long as your main vessel had the courtesy to sink in good weather.

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Dinghy is looking better all of the time."
Except, with no ballast pockets, a dinghy would flunk one of the major required criteria for life rafts these days. No problem, as long as your main vessel had the courtesy to sink in good weather.

There is a Dinghy that is Coast Guard approved as a life raft. Here's a nice article on it. I wouldn't go that route but for some it works.



https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/two-boat-cruisers

[n2climbing]

I have a good one for sale on Ebay. Viking DK+ 10 person. Original inspection: 11/2016. Next inspection: 11/2019. Check it out.

[hellosailor]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any reference to the Portland Pudgy being USCG approved as a life raft there. Just that he had an optional CO2 inflator for the exposure cover.

A friend of mine had a Tinker dinghy set up that way (with sail and top cover) 30-odd years ago, but back then the importance of ballast pockets hadn't really been known.

And FWIW, Cruising World has apparently drinking the EU privacy act kool-aide. If you are using a browser that is set for high security and rejecting cookies and/or active scripts? You can't reach the web site at all now, you get blocked on the notification page. Not impressive.

Did I miss the USCG approved bit? The maker gives an illusion of that by saying:
"According to designer , the U.S. Coast Guard has tested the Pudgy at 1,855 lbs. of buoyancy and has rated its capacity at four people. Floor space of the Portland Pudgy also meets the U.S.C.G. minimum of 16 sq.ft.for a four-person life-raft."
But you'll note it only meets the criteria for FLOOR SPACE and PASSENGER CAPACITY not USCG approval as a life raft. It has no ballast pockets, even optionally.

[liferaft]

I am retired from the life raft service industry, sold my business in the spring of '17. Prior to that had serviced rafts since the early '80s.

Customers often would inquire about previously owned rafts and if there was a way they could stretch their budget. 99% of the time it turns out not to make financial sense. Generally life rafts that have been on recreational boats don't get serviced and those up for sale tend to have gone 5+ years since their last inspection. Service facilities are required by the life raft manufacturer to perform specific tests (a good thing) and change many parts (a profit center for the manufacturer). If the facility does not do what the manufacturer requires they expose themselves to extra liability and the potential of losing their standing with the manufacturer. Viking and Survitec; who owns Zodiac, RFD, Crewsaver, and many more brands are the worst offenders in requiring all sorts of parts to be changed out just to increase their revenues.

Why do they need this revenue? It's because they don't make enough of a profit when they sell the rafts in the first place. Life raft prices hardly raised in the 30+ years I was in business and in many cases are actually lower now than they were in the mid 80's. In many cases today it is actually less expensive to buy a new raft than to get an older one serviced.

That is the financial side. As to the service life span of an inflatable life raft, there really is one. The coated fabric the raft is made from will age and get to a point where it will no longer hold air. That might be 10 years for a raft living on deck in the tropics to 20+ years for a raft stored in the cool Pacific Northwest. Go back to the financial side and answer the question- how can a raft be less expensive today than in the 80's? One way is the materials and construction are not as good. The only way to tell what sort of condition a raft is in is by servicing it.

Should you service your own raft? NO WAY! Anyone can inflate their raft and let it sit to test for leaks and there is no problem changing the consumables but outside a service facility you are not going to be able to replace O-Rings that might be in the inflation system (and these age = fail) nor will you have the criterion to know what other tests need to be performed. Seam strength and floor strength are tested by most manufacturers and I have seen failures in both categories. Then there is the problem of folding the raft and getting it in to its valise or container. Folding patterns can be so complex that even a well trained technician needs to pull out drawings to help with the process. Do it wrong and the raft won't inflate properly. These drawings are not something one can find on the internet nor have I ever seen accurate instructions on YouTube.

Shop around and buy a new raft.

Now if you need some sail ties, I am still making them. StrapsToGo.com

[toddster8]

Tried that. I'm told (by every service center that I called) that Avon rafts can't be serviced because the consumables pack is no longer available. I always considered the ditch bag to be the only viable consumables pack anyway. Will self-service it some long winter afternoon.

But, I don't have a really good place for the valise anyway. Needs a dedicated cockpit locker, which would take some surgery. Or possibly a custom-made fiberglass capsule. No sense thinking too much about it until/unless the self-service goes OK.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Tried that. I'm told (by every service center that I called) that Avon rafts can't be serviced because the consumables pack is no longer available. I always considered the ditch bag to be the only viable consumables pack anyway. Will self-service it some long winter afternoon.

But, I don't have a really good place for the valise anyway. Needs a dedicated cockpit locker, which would take some surgery. Or possibly a custom-made fiberglass capsule. No sense thinking too much about it until/unless the self-service goes OK.

That is a weird answer -- the consumables pack need not come from Avon. There is nothing in it specific to the raft.


I have my two Avon Ocean rafts professionally serviced every three years by a certified service center. I am a required carry vessel so I have to have the certificate. Never an issue with consumables, which I bring with me and supply myself anyway -- it saves a lot of money.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is a weird answer -- the consumables pack need not come from Avon. There is nothing in it specific to the raft.


I have my two Avon Ocean rafts professionally serviced every three years by a certified service center. I am a required carry vessel so I have to have the certificate. Never an issue with consumables, which I bring with me and supply myself anyway -- it saves a lot of money.

Dunno... maybe there is some specific part on my raft that is supposed to be replaced on servicing. I think they mentioned such a thing, but I don't recall after three or four years exactly what it was. I remember thinking that it sounded like a pretty trivial issue. But they wouldn't certify it if the part wasn't direct from the manufacturer.

Now I see that the two service centers within a days drive of me no longer even exist.

Oh, and BTW, dive shops don't hydro-test cylinders. They send them out to a specialty shop that does. (In the US, anyway.) Just recently had some of my tanks done at a fire-safety equipment business. I think it was $12. But they don't refill them. AirGas has swallowed up a lot of local and regional gas suppliers. If you take your cylinder to them, they just ship it off to Chicago or someplace and give you a different one with the same kind of gas. Never have to test them because whatever they give you is always current. No idea if they'd take whatever cylinder is in a raft.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Dunno... maybe there is some specific part on my raft that is supposed to be replaced on servicing. I think they mentioned such a thing, but I don't recall after three or four years exactly what it was. I remember thinking that it sounded like a pretty trivial issue. But they wouldn't certify it if the part wasn't direct from the manufacturer.

Now I see that the two service centers within a days drive of me no longer even exist.

Oh, and BTW, dive shops don't hydro-test cylinders. They send them out to a specialty shop that does. (In the US, anyway.) Just recently had some of my tanks done at a fire-safety equipment business. I think it was $12. But they don't refill them. AirGas has swallowed up a lot of local and regional gas suppliers. If you take your cylinder to them, they just ship it off to Chicago or someplace and give you a different one with the same kind of gas. Never have to test them because whatever they give you is always current. No idea if they'd take whatever cylinder is in a raft.

The cylinder pkg in my sar-6 is not common to anything but the raft. However the cylinder is common industrial and is about the size of a 10lb content. Valves are removed for hyrotest. Hydrtest entails submerging cyl in underfloor water column to messure the stretch under pressure in a water column tube calibration. Using a failed cylinder is not a good idea. But they make neat wind chimes or gong bells.The valve is nothing like any other application ive seen. The hose fitting to the valve is uncommon to anything else . The burst wafer is on a ss hose dangling from the valve. Im not a certified life raft technician. However,
For the diy guy like me , im cutting the hose fitting off the cyl end of the hose coming from the tubes in raft. Removing the valve and swapping for conventional co2 industrial cga320 valve with appropriate pipe taper for cylinder with handwheel.Acquire appropriate female cga 320 female fitting for attaching to 320 valve. Other end of female 320 fitting will have appropriate hose barb for use with a furrele for crimping. If i put a low pressure shut off valve in that hose the tank can be disconnected.
Im not commercial so i can do that. Legally.
The shops that certify can’t keep up with onslaught of regs from politicians ( lawyers) which constantly jack up liabilities insurance to ridiculous prices. Thus ive heard of 2000$ certifications for a 6000$ raft never out of the valise.
For themost part , USA congressional politicians ( lawmakers) are lawyers . Usa pres is not a lawyer. He just hires several to compete with the rest of the swamp . Our govt is of the lawyers, by the lawyers and for the lawyers. IMO and im stickin to it.

[thruska]

FYI
FWIW

Switlik SAR-6 | OPR | ISO-9650 OPR-HDÂ* Offshore Life Raft - Authorized dealer sales and service Avalon Rafts

I’d be glad to attempt to post pics of the cylinder and valve/ regulator/ hose set up if anyone is interested.

[hellosailor]

Nope.
Portland Pudgy Lifeboat FAQ | Portland Pudgy

They refer to their product as a lifeboat, not a life raft, and nowhere do they say it is USCG approved for anything beyond the weight capacity for four passengers. They perhaps somewhat cleverly say that it meets the USCG criteria for floor space--but there's nothing claiming it is USCG approved as a life raft.

Or, meeting the perhaps more rigid SOLAS standards for one, as many commercial rafts do.

This doesn't make it a bad thing--just to say that is anyone wants a LIFE RAFT, this is not approved for use as one.

[ShellBack89]

You didn't miss it because I couldn't find it in the article either. I read the same thing on their website about being a life boat and being certified due to the 16.1 sq ft surface area meeting the 16 sq ft area for a life raft.



The fancy wording not only got me but it got the author of "The Cruising Life: A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager" and owner of a Portland Pudgy. In his book, he states "Because of the unsinkable feature and its excellent design, its the only dinghy that is certified by the U.S. Coast Guard as a four-person life raft".


In this article https://www.morganscloud.com/2009/09/19/portland-pudgy/ it reviews the Portland Pudgy as a Tender and Life Raft Combo. Although, it states it wouldn't recommend the Pudgy as a life raft because the "Pudgy does not have any water ballast or other system (other than a sea anchor) to stop it from being flipped in large breaking waves." The fact that this and other articles discuss the Pudgy as being a Life Raft may confuse people like it did me and the Author of the book I mentioned. Either way I wasn't recommended it since I'll take a traditional inflatable life raft please......

[hellosailor]

IIRC AirGas is mainly an "industrial gas" supplier. That market is mainly things like welding tanks (CO2, oxygen, acetylene, etc.) and CNG. For all of those gasses, normally an individual never actually OWNS the tank.
You rent/lease/borrow the tank from the supplier. You are expected to return it, or forfeit a deposit, etc. within a specific time. Or, with the CNG tanks, you can hold onto it forever--but sooner or later they will come looking for it if you haven't brought it back for a refill exchange. And they do that normally as exchanges, so there is no local regulatory problem with "refilling", and they absorb the prices of the VIP inspections and hydro inspections.
The good thing is, you never have to bother with all that stuff.
The bad thing is, if you OWN a nice shiny new tank, it may get swapped for a banged up POS, and you've got no choice about that. And, someone may come around to ask for it back. I was given an oxygen tank that someone had been given by a friend...and fortunately I was slow to do anything with it. Two months later, I got a frantic phone call did I still have the tank, the welding shop wanted big money if it didn't come back.