How expired is this liferaft?

[hellosailor]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any reference to the Portland Pudgy being USCG approved as a life raft there. Just that he had an optional CO2 inflator for the exposure cover.

A friend of mine had a Tinker dinghy set up that way (with sail and top cover) 30-odd years ago, but back then the importance of ballast pockets hadn't really been known.

And FWIW, Cruising World has apparently drinking the EU privacy act kool-aide. If you are using a browser that is set for high security and rejecting cookies and/or active scripts? You can't reach the web site at all now, you get blocked on the notification page. Not impressive.

Did I miss the USCG approved bit? The maker gives an illusion of that by saying:
"According to designer , the U.S. Coast Guard has tested the Pudgy at 1,855 lbs. of buoyancy and has rated its capacity at four people. Floor space of the Portland Pudgy also meets the U.S.C.G. minimum of 16 sq.ft.for a four-person life-raft."
But you'll note it only meets the criteria for FLOOR SPACE and PASSENGER CAPACITY not USCG approval as a life raft. It has no ballast pockets, even optionally.

[toddster8]

Tried that. I'm told (by every service center that I called) that Avon rafts can't be serviced because the consumables pack is no longer available. I always considered the ditch bag to be the only viable consumables pack anyway. Will self-service it some long winter afternoon.

But, I don't have a really good place for the valise anyway. Needs a dedicated cockpit locker, which would take some surgery. Or possibly a custom-made fiberglass capsule. No sense thinking too much about it until/unless the self-service goes OK.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Tried that. I'm told (by every service center that I called) that Avon rafts can't be serviced because the consumables pack is no longer available. I always considered the ditch bag to be the only viable consumables pack anyway. Will self-service it some long winter afternoon.

But, I don't have a really good place for the valise anyway. Needs a dedicated cockpit locker, which would take some surgery. Or possibly a custom-made fiberglass capsule. No sense thinking too much about it until/unless the self-service goes OK.

That is a weird answer -- the consumables pack need not come from Avon. There is nothing in it specific to the raft.


I have my two Avon Ocean rafts professionally serviced every three years by a certified service center. I am a required carry vessel so I have to have the certificate. Never an issue with consumables, which I bring with me and supply myself anyway -- it saves a lot of money.

[hellosailor]

Nope.
Portland Pudgy Lifeboat FAQ | Portland Pudgy

They refer to their product as a lifeboat, not a life raft, and nowhere do they say it is USCG approved for anything beyond the weight capacity for four passengers. They perhaps somewhat cleverly say that it meets the USCG criteria for floor space--but there's nothing claiming it is USCG approved as a life raft.

Or, meeting the perhaps more rigid SOLAS standards for one, as many commercial rafts do.

This doesn't make it a bad thing--just to say that is anyone wants a LIFE RAFT, this is not approved for use as one.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is a weird answer -- the consumables pack need not come from Avon. There is nothing in it specific to the raft.


I have my two Avon Ocean rafts professionally serviced every three years by a certified service center. I am a required carry vessel so I have to have the certificate. Never an issue with consumables, which I bring with me and supply myself anyway -- it saves a lot of money.

Dunno... maybe there is some specific part on my raft that is supposed to be replaced on servicing. I think they mentioned such a thing, but I don't recall after three or four years exactly what it was. I remember thinking that it sounded like a pretty trivial issue. But they wouldn't certify it if the part wasn't direct from the manufacturer.

Now I see that the two service centers within a days drive of me no longer even exist.

Oh, and BTW, dive shops don't hydro-test cylinders. They send them out to a specialty shop that does. (In the US, anyway.) Just recently had some of my tanks done at a fire-safety equipment business. I think it was $12. But they don't refill them. AirGas has swallowed up a lot of local and regional gas suppliers. If you take your cylinder to them, they just ship it off to Chicago or someplace and give you a different one with the same kind of gas. Never have to test them because whatever they give you is always current. No idea if they'd take whatever cylinder is in a raft.

[ShellBack89]

You didn't miss it because I couldn't find it in the article either. I read the same thing on their website about being a life boat and being certified due to the 16.1 sq ft surface area meeting the 16 sq ft area for a life raft.



The fancy wording not only got me but it got the author of "The Cruising Life: A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager" and owner of a Portland Pudgy. In his book, he states "Because of the unsinkable feature and its excellent design, its the only dinghy that is certified by the U.S. Coast Guard as a four-person life raft".


In this article https://www.morganscloud.com/2009/09/19/portland-pudgy/ it reviews the Portland Pudgy as a Tender and Life Raft Combo. Although, it states it wouldn't recommend the Pudgy as a life raft because the "Pudgy does not have any water ballast or other system (other than a sea anchor) to stop it from being flipped in large breaking waves." The fact that this and other articles discuss the Pudgy as being a Life Raft may confuse people like it did me and the Author of the book I mentioned. Either way I wasn't recommended it since I'll take a traditional inflatable life raft please......

[hellosailor]

IIRC AirGas is mainly an "industrial gas" supplier. That market is mainly things like welding tanks (CO2, oxygen, acetylene, etc.) and CNG. For all of those gasses, normally an individual never actually OWNS the tank.
You rent/lease/borrow the tank from the supplier. You are expected to return it, or forfeit a deposit, etc. within a specific time. Or, with the CNG tanks, you can hold onto it forever--but sooner or later they will come looking for it if you haven't brought it back for a refill exchange. And they do that normally as exchanges, so there is no local regulatory problem with "refilling", and they absorb the prices of the VIP inspections and hydro inspections.
The good thing is, you never have to bother with all that stuff.
The bad thing is, if you OWN a nice shiny new tank, it may get swapped for a banged up POS, and you've got no choice about that. And, someone may come around to ask for it back. I was given an oxygen tank that someone had been given by a friend...and fortunately I was slow to do anything with it. Two months later, I got a frantic phone call did I still have the tank, the welding shop wanted big money if it didn't come back.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

"The consequences of screwing that up are arguably just as grave"
The consequences of screwing up "self-servicing" a liferaft is a grave.

I’m goin out on a limb here but whatever....
If you are not commercial no certification necessary.
My free sar-6 is built for dropping out of cg helicopters.
It’s built to last.

If you have a raggity piece of Schmitt, put in back yard , fill with water for the kids....

It ain’t rocket science

[thruska]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

IIRC AirGas is mainly an "industrial gas" supplier. That market is mainly things like welding tanks (CO2, oxygen, acetylene, etc.) and CNG. For all of those gasses, normally an individual never actually OWNS the tank.
You rent/lease/borrow the tank from the supplier. You are expected to return it, or forfeit a deposit, etc. within a specific time. Or, with the CNG tanks, you can hold onto it forever--but sooner or later they will come looking for it if you haven't brought it back for a refill exchange. And they do that normally as exchanges, so there is no local regulatory problem with "refilling", and they absorb the prices of the VIP inspections and hydro inspections.
The good thing is, you never have to bother with all that stuff.
The bad thing is, if you OWN a nice shiny new tank, it may get swapped for a banged up POS, and you've got no choice about that. And, someone may come around to ask for it back. I was given an oxygen tank that someone had been given by a friend...and fortunately I was slow to do anything with it. Two months later, I got a frantic phone call did I still have the tank, the welding shop wanted big money if it didn't come back.

Compressed gas corporations huge percentage of business is not industrial but medical. The difference between medical oxy and industrial oxy is in ten thousandths of percentages of impurities. In an asthmatic attack either will work without the need of a lawyer !
I owned two pickup truckloads of cylinders of different usages of gas all,legally.
They were all stolen including a trailer they were stored in.They are easily put back into service by anyone with half of a brain.
Businesses like to rent tanks as that’s where the money is !!! If you rent it and lose it or give it away or get arc burn or grinding marks on it or put it thru a fire , you will pay full boat for it ! If you exchanged an owned cylinder with an expired hydrates date the biz will try to charge you for a test
The only people absorbing prices are the consumer, Hahahaha .
Back to thread... my sar-6 has a co2 cylinder with the burst wafer compromised. The wafer is for inflating raft from the helicopter drop.
Cylinder needs a current test date, thirty years ago 7-12$ , now I’m not sure.
But I can take my welder co2 cylinder which I own and exchange, use it on a beer tap or soda machine or attach it to my free sar-6, open valve and presto !
Not rocket science....
Btw any co2 on beer or soda machine is not food grade...
Get a big snort of your torch oxygen for that bad hangover...
Acetylene gas used to be the anesthesia of choice for dentists, talk about headache....
Any compressed gas makes a great propellant. But that’s rocket science... be careful out there !

[n2climbing]

I have a good one for sale on Ebay. Viking DK+ 10 person. Original inspection: 11/2016. Next inspection: 11/2019. Check it out.

[hellosailor]

Anyone who has been concerned about life rafts and safety at sea in general (and perhaps following Doug Ritters excellent equipped.org web site) may recall that there were at least two incidents where the USCG took action after a complaint alleging that one hard life raft valise contained bricks and another sea boots and other material...the life rafts that had been repacked by an authorized expensive highly trained professional service, just weren't in the cannisters.

You hear the same attitude in skydiving. "Oh, you should let a pro repack your chute" Ah, no, that's something you don't want anyone except yourself to do. How many times has any one of us found a "pro" screwed up a job and it had to go back for a remake? Anyone never had that happen?

[thruska]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Dunno... maybe there is some specific part on my raft that is supposed to be replaced on servicing. I think they mentioned such a thing, but I don't recall after three or four years exactly what it was. I remember thinking that it sounded like a pretty trivial issue. But they wouldn't certify it if the part wasn't direct from the manufacturer.

Now I see that the two service centers within a days drive of me no longer even exist.

Oh, and BTW, dive shops don't hydro-test cylinders. They send them out to a specialty shop that does. (In the US, anyway.) Just recently had some of my tanks done at a fire-safety equipment business. I think it was $12. But they don't refill them. AirGas has swallowed up a lot of local and regional gas suppliers. If you take your cylinder to them, they just ship it off to Chicago or someplace and give you a different one with the same kind of gas. Never have to test them because whatever they give you is always current. No idea if they'd take whatever cylinder is in a raft.

The cylinder pkg in my sar-6 is not common to anything but the raft. However the cylinder is common industrial and is about the size of a 10lb content. Valves are removed for hyrotest. Hydrtest entails submerging cyl in underfloor water column to messure the stretch under pressure in a water column tube calibration. Using a failed cylinder is not a good idea. But they make neat wind chimes or gong bells.The valve is nothing like any other application ive seen. The hose fitting to the valve is uncommon to anything else . The burst wafer is on a ss hose dangling from the valve. Im not a certified life raft technician. However,
For the diy guy like me , im cutting the hose fitting off the cyl end of the hose coming from the tubes in raft. Removing the valve and swapping for conventional co2 industrial cga320 valve with appropriate pipe taper for cylinder with handwheel.Acquire appropriate female cga 320 female fitting for attaching to 320 valve. Other end of female 320 fitting will have appropriate hose barb for use with a furrele for crimping. If i put a low pressure shut off valve in that hose the tank can be disconnected.
Im not commercial so i can do that. Legally.
The shops that certify can’t keep up with onslaught of regs from politicians ( lawyers) which constantly jack up liabilities insurance to ridiculous prices. Thus ive heard of 2000$ certifications for a 6000$ raft never out of the valise.
For themost part , USA congressional politicians ( lawmakers) are lawyers . Usa pres is not a lawyer. He just hires several to compete with the rest of the swamp . Our govt is of the lawyers, by the lawyers and for the lawyers. IMO and im stickin to it.

[thruska]

FYI
FWIW

Switlik SAR-6 | OPR | ISO-9650 OPR-HDÂ* Offshore Life Raft - Authorized dealer sales and service Avalon Rafts

I’d be glad to attempt to post pics of the cylinder and valve/ regulator/ hose set up if anyone is interested.

[andypag]

Yes please

[andypag]

If self servicing, how do you reseal the valise? I see two straps that presumably are designed to snap when it's released. Can they be released without breaking them?