Help wanted with first time ATN Climber use.

[masonc]

I tried using a climber, having my workers winch me, but finally I gave up and modified a long ladder which were put up the mast, I wear a bosuns and get winched the least few feet.

[PNWSalmon]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It will depend on each individual boat. I tie my climbing line to my main halyard (using double sheet-bend). I then hoist the climbing line with my halyard, locking the free end of the climbing line to a mast cleat. I then use the mast winch to make the climbing/halyard line as tight as I dare (very tight). It should be very tight.

If your lines all lead aft, then you can use the same approach, but you’d use the cockpit winches.

Oh, that's interesting. I was going off the video, where he has it way off to the side. I think it would be much easier doing it the way you've described, closer to the mast, it will feel more secure, like you say the only issue is maybe scratching the mast with the climbers themselves.

Sometimes it just takes a little different perspective to make things clear. Thank you. I'll try it again this spring.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by PNWSalmon

I had a lot of trouble, the first time I tried it, to get the line tight enough. Where do you all attach the climbing line to? The mid-deck cleat or what? Thanks!

I tie the main halyard off to the tang on the mast that holds the vang.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by PNWSalmon

Oh, that's interesting. I was going off the video, where he has it way off to the side. I think it would be much easier doing it the way you've described, closer to the mast, it will feel more secure, like you say the only issue is maybe scratching the mast with the climbers themselves.

Sometimes it just takes a little different perspective to make things clear. Thank you. I'll try it again this spring.

Hmmm, I haven’t looked at any videos in a long time. I’ve had the climber for, must be over a decade now. I don’t see how securing the climbing line way off to one side would make any sense.

Here’s a pic I found which inadvertently shows a little of my setup. The red line is my low-stretch climbing line. It is secured below the bottom of the photo to a large mast cleat. The blue fleck is my main halyard. It is winched tight on the mast winch. The top ascender is in place.

[ric14854]

Put me in the happy ATN owner category. 66 and find it an easy task. First use I just went up two indexes just high enough to hang. Stayed there for awhile to get comfortable and play with swinging around and such. Then try descent as it's a slightly different technique. You want to make certain you can get back down.

After that you'll probably be ready to go to the top. Only question is how much you trust the haylard you're hanging on. A second safety line with someone to operate is prudent. But safety is a measure of what's an acceptable risk.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Whatever line you climb on, the least stretch the better. Stretch in the line wastes energy big time as you can give up as much as half the progress you gain fighting stretch in a plain Dacron double braid.

Stretch is not a problem unless your footstraps and harness straps are for some reason, on separate halyards.

I climb the mast using a pair of old style mountain climbing ascenders on a single stretchy climbing line, with backup by my wife on spare halyard to winch. With harness and footstraps on same line, after the initial stretch when you first put your weight on it, your climbing line won't have much more stretch, only stretching less than an inch or so on the short distance between the foot and harness attachment points of your ascenders or mast climbers.
I use a regular climbing rope since my ascenders dig into any normal braided line as used for halyards, and this way I avoid damage to the halyards.. Climbing ropes have a hard and smooth outer layer that makes it easier to release and move the ascender down when you descend.

I may buy a pair of the ATN ascenders since they sound a bit easier to use, but I would not ever apply any ascenders on an expensive low stretch halyard.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ric14854

...After that you'll probably be ready to go to the top. Only question is how much you trust the haylard you're hanging on. A second safety line with someone to operate is prudent. But safety is a measure of what's an acceptable risk.

Yes. I’ve always used a second halyard as a safety line. Usually either my partner, or I (depending on who going up) will manage the safety line. If I was alone I’d use a prusik knot arrangement as some others have mentioned.

And just to clarify, I don’t climb my normal halyard. I have a dedicated climbing line which I only use with the Climber. Just seems prudent.

I find that a taut line is far easier to climb than one that is not. Maybe because I’m not a climber, but I find that a stretchy line makes it harder to move the ascenders. A taut line makes it all very easy. I also find it takes more effort to control the lateral swinging when the line is slacker.

[Lancerbye]

At 75 soon and bad knees I had to give up climbing the steps I installed 12 years ago. I use a bosun's chair and an ATV winch with a battery booster kit attached to the winch. Free wheel the winch with a spare halyard to the top and sit in the bosun's chair with the plugged in winch remote. Up and down the mast with the touch of a button. I also use a safety line with a prussic knot to a second halyard in case of a winch failure( hasn't happened yet) I would be able to climb down with the mast steps. As one gets older and still needs to do his own thing, we have to work smarter and slower.

[JPA Cate]

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Jim and I use a Milwaukee tool to send him up the mast. It is heavy, but I can manage it. We also use it when tacking, and reefing. I prefer to use the low speed because it can rip itself out of my hand on high.

Ann

[roverhi]

Powered winches to haul someone up the mast are nice but be really really careful. A women lost her hand and a Good Samaritan who came by to help lost fingers when something went wrong hoisting someone up the mast with an electric winch.

This is a write up I did on the differences between GriGri/Ascender mountain climbing gear and the Mast Climber. The video at the bottom of the link is really good at showing how the GriGri/Ascender system works.

Mast Climbing:

Mast Climbing

Have used the set up in this video but with a climbing harness. It works but the climbing harness is not comfortable for hanging for longer periods. Notice they used the seat/harness from the Mast Climber in the video. The Ascender/Grigri system is cheaper to put together, but not by a whole lot, than the Mast Climber. Going with off brand hardware and a used bosun's chair could bring the cost down. Limited experience with the system, a couple times up the mast. Initial experience, it seems to take a little more effort to climb with it than the ATN Mast Climber. Using both legs and arm felt iike more work than the Mast Climber system. Now that I’ve had a little more experience with the rig, Can climb faster but still no easier than the Mast Climber. Way easier and faster to descend, however though you do have to do some rerigging to come down and go back up. To desend have to remove the ascender and foot straps which is a little scary and takes some time. Don’t overshoot on the descent cause you’ll have to rerig the ascender to go back up even an inch if your forget to release the safety Prusik knot. The Grigri was so easy to use. Could descend as fast or slow as I wanted with virtually no effort. Had to make some modifications to the foot straps mainly sewing a bit of seat belt material onto the stirrups to hook them together so had leverage against the mast. The rock climbing harness that I used had high rating for comfort but wasn't comfortable for more than a trip up the mast and very limited work while up there for me. The waist belt began to dig into me and was quite uncomfortable. Tried another harness and that dug into my legs. That’s why i highly reccomend getting the ATN seat/harness if you can find one and still keep your limbs after paying for it. The climbing rope doesn't have to be anchored to the deck with climbing gear which makes swinging out to work on spreaders or around the mast to work on the side opposite your climbing line. People say GriGri’s are line diameter sensitive but mine works on 5/16” through 1/2"

Have a Mast Climber that I've used extensively. The foot straps work out of the box. The harness/seat is very comfortable and safe for working hours aloft. The ascenders are a little clunky in use and hard on my hands without gloves. There were/are two different types ofascenders that came/come with the Mast Climber. The early ones are black anodized aluminum and have to have the climbing line fed from the end. They only work if you have external halyards or a dedicated climbing line hauled up a halyard. The current version ascenders are gold anodized. They can be fitted anywhere on a line so no need to thread the bitter end of the climbing line into the ascenders. Find it easier to use with the climbing line anchored to the mast and winched tight. Climbing is straight forward and relatively easy with either type ascender though not a walk in the park. Descending is its weak point as you have to carefully gauge how far you move the ascenders down the rope. It’s the opposite of climbing but hard to gauge how much you move the foot and seat ascenders. Lower the foot ascender too much and you can't release the seat ascender and vice versa. You have to reposition the foot or seat ascender to be able to release the opposing ascender and descend. Takes more energy than you'd expect with gravity working with you and was slow but you get in the rhythm the more often you use the system. It still gets you down but takes longer than the GriGri though maybe not if you include the rerigging that the GriGri requires and especially if you overshoot on the descent and have to reinstall the ascender/foot straps to go back up.

You could do the Mast Climber thing with rope and Klemheist or Prussik knots and a bosun's chair or climbing harness. Use one length of line for a foot strap and another for the chair/harness and up you go just as you do with the Mast Climber ascenders. One word of caution, the Prussic knots on the 5/16" halyard locked up when put under load. Discovered this when I kept forgeting to slide the Prussik knot safety line down as I descended with the Grigri. Had to take tension off the K/D knot with the ascender foot harness and physically loosen the K/D knots to get them to slide up or down. Don't seem to remember this happening on the 3/8” or larger halyards on my otther boat so it may have something to do with the rope diameter.

Caution about Bosun's Chairs. Without a restraining strap that will keep you on the seat it's really easy to slide forward off the seat and find yourself hanging by your armpits. That is dangerous especially if you silde completely through the seat and fall free. At best it can be really difficult to get back onto the seat. The Mast Climber chair/harness has heavy duty leg restraints that keep your butt firmly in place on the seat. Best of all, the seat is so damned comfortable I spend way too much time when I climb the mast with Mast Climber seat enjoying the Zen moment.

Safety lines. Use one line always attached to your seat and a seperate halyard with a Klemheist or Prusik knot. If something should happen to the primary line, you'll still be hanging around up there. A fall of even a few feet can be painful and 10' or more deadly. Keep a separate line to rig if you ever end up suspended by your safety line. If your primary line fails you'll still be hanging around unharmed BUT you'll have no way to get down on your own. With a second Prusik/Klemheist knotted safety line that you can rig, you can use that as the foot line to work you way down. Saves you the embarrassment of having to flag down passers by to call the fire department to get you down.

I've got low stretch, Dyneema/Spectra cored, dacron covered halyards and use them to climb. Way better when working at the mast head as you can get a few critical inches higher than with a dedicated climbing rope tied to a halyard. When you tie two ropes together, as you would with a separate climbing line, the knots take up critical space that limits how high or even if you can get your head above the mast head. Halyards won't work as the climbing line if you have wire halyards or have stripped the dacron cover off your exotics so don't do that. The low stretch exotics make climbing a lot easier as you waste way less effort with lines that don't stretch. My favorite is T-900 as stretch is practically zero even in 5/16" but it's way pricey and stiff. If you are replacing halyards, do at least one in the lowest stretch line you can afford. Even StaSet X takes less energy to climb on than straight Dacron double braid.

[aa1bflyboy]

I bought one end of season last year. I’ve not tested it out yet other than at home out in the garage. Got nowhere as I missed the part about attaching the climbing line to the deck below. I was advised to secure it below with a winch to make it taunt as possible. I was also advised to try it out on the ground outside to a large tree if possible. This removes the mast movement part of the equation. I’ll post how I make out.

[Seighlor]

Everything's been covered here... tight line... non-stretch... have a helper with a bucket attached to another halyard to send up tools and stuff you forgot, etc.

I used the ATN climber with two store bought knees until about the time I was eighty. Just take it slow. No big deal.

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes. I’ve always used a second halyard as a safety line. Usually either my partner, or I (depending on who going up) will manage the safety line. If I was alone I’d use a prusik knot arrangement as some others have mentioned.

And just to clarify, I don’t climb my normal halyard. I have a dedicated climbing line which I only use with the Climber. Just seems prudent.

I find that a taut line is far easier to climb than one that is not. Maybe because I’m not a climber, but I find that a stretchy line makes it harder to move the ascenders. A taut line makes it all very easy. I also find it takes more effort to control the lateral swinging when the line is slacker.

Hi Mike

Thanks for the great posts on this piece of kit ...... I have just got mine and have not used it yet. I really like your idea of attaching a separate rope to the main halyard and using a low stretch rope. And my mast/winch setup will work perfectly for that.

So I have some questions on this topic
I need to buy the rope to attach to my main halyard - what diameter line would you suggest is best?

I think using the climbing rope might make sense as it seems from the posters experience that the covering helps with descending? I can always take the climbing rope and make it "dead" by load shocking it.

Any suggestions if I go the dyneema to spectra core (to eliminate stretch) what the best cover for this line might be?

Thanks

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lambretta

Thanks for the great posts on this piece of kit ...... I have just got mine and have not used it yet. I really like your idea of attaching a separate rope to the main halyard and using a low stretch rope. And my mast/winch setup will work perfectly for that.

So I have some questions on this topic
I need to buy the rope to attach to my main halyard - what diameter line would you suggest is best?

I think using the climbing rope might make sense as it seems from the posters experience that the covering helps with descending? I can always take the climbing rope and make it "dead" by load shocking it.

Any suggestions if I go the dyneema to spectra core (to eliminate stretch) what the best cover for this line might be?

Always glad to help if I can…

I bought my ATN kit over a decade ago now. Fancy spectra type line was not readily available (I’d probably never even heard of it back then), so I bought a good quality low-stretch line; I think it is/was something like Sta-Set-X. I believe it is 7/16”, or maybe 1/2” — the same diameter as my halyards. This rig has served me well all these years.

If I was replacing this climbing line I think it makes sense to look at Spectra cored lines. I have no experience (outside of playing with some soft shackles) with this stuff. My first question would be around slippage. Spectra is very slippery. The climbers relies on a jam cleat, so I would want to make sure there is no risk of slippage. I assume the sheath would ensure this doesn’t happen, but that is my initial question with this.

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Always glad to help if I can…

I bought my ATN kit over a decade ago now. Fancy spectra type line was not readily available (I’d probably never even heard of it back then), so I bought a good quality low-stretch line; I think it is/was something like Sta-Set-X. I believe it is 7/16”, or maybe 1/2” — the same diameter as my halyards. This rig has served me well all these years.

If I was replacing this climbing line I think it makes sense to look at Spectra cored lines. I have no experience (outside of playing with some soft shackles) with this stuff. My first question would be around slippage. Spectra is very slippery. The climbers relies on a jam cleat, so I would want to make sure there is no risk of slippage. I assume the sheath would ensure this doesn’t happen, but that is my initial question with this.

Thanks for the feedback and noted .......... I will also chat to the rope shop I use ..... they manufacture as well ...(Southern Ropes) and do mainly yachting ropes but also a range of climbing ropes ..... I will revert once I have spoken to them.
Rope diameters noted.
My halyard is 12mm or 1/2inch