CO detectors -- UL2034 and "the applicable sections pertaining ..."

[alaskaflyfish]

Mandatory legislation? Remember when we used to have that thing called freedom? Having a co detector is a good idea but legislation, really! More people slip and fall in bathtubs every year. Do we need nanny state for that too?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I would have troubles convincing a jury that they meet the law as currently proposed in Maryland.

I doubt you'd have to. The "marine" units say "marine" on the front, and their "manual" (sheet) says "marine" and UL-whatever. Doubt any burden of proof would lay with the customer.

-Chris

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Mandatory legislation? Remember when we used to have that thing called freedom? Having a co detector is a good idea but legislation, really! More people slip and fall in bathtubs every year. Do we need nanny state for that too?

+!
it's almost certainly about manufacturers wanting to increase sales. Here in NYS comrade Cuomo (our governor) and our legislators decided that child seats need expiration dates and cannot be passed down from child to child. Their argument is that the seat belts, the ones made out of the same material as the seat belts in cars, may go bad after two years. It for the children; translation politicians were paid off by someone.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

+!
it's almost certainly about manufacturers wanting to increase sales. Here in NYS comrade Cuomo (our governor) and our legislators decided that child seats need expiration dates and cannot be passed down from child to child. Their argument is that the seat belts, the ones made out of the same material as the seat belts in cars, may go bad after two years. It for the children; translation politicians were paid off by someone.

Thanks for noticing my post. I am surprised how many intelligent people discussing this topic dug directly into the verbiage of manufacture compliance instead of noticing that more draconian legislation is about to be pushed down their throat. It surprises me that cruisers(freedom lovers) have this slave mentality, openly admitting to not knowing the difference between what is law, and what is lawful. Signs of the times I suppose.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Thanks for noticing my post. I am surprised how many intelligent people discussing this topic dug directly into the verbiage of manufacture compliance instead of noticing that more draconian legislation is about to be pushed down their throat. It surprises me that cruisers(freedom lovers) have this slave mentality, openly admitting to not knowing the difference between what is law, and what is lawful. Signs of the times I suppose.

Sadly it is a sign of the times. The sheeple just assume that it is "for the children" when in reality it is about enforcement, money, and power.

People also just accept this B.S. about being pulled over for a "safety" check. Can you imagine the uproar if police randomly pulled you and your car over for safety checks? I wouldn't mind if there was a yearly inspection like many states have for the cars, but getting pulled over several times on the water is asinine.

[alaskaflyfish]

Instead of passing legislation stating that carbon monoxide alarms meet certain marine standards, they force recreational boaters to purchase a product.$$$big money. A good citizen is a docile, easily controlled, happy to pay taxes,fines fees and penalties or whatever their Lords dictate.
The Coasties that I have encountered, I remind them that they took an oath to their god to defend the constitution. By enforcing
"ordinance" laws instead, they violate constitutional law which they swore to uphold. I let them know before hand that I know my rights and that they are on video. So far no incidents, they are usually a good bunch of people.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Mandatory legislation? Remember when we used to have that thing called freedom? Having a co detector is a good idea but legislation, really! More people slip and fall in bathtubs every year. Do we need nanny state for that too?

Don't get me started. We also have to have three placards explaining the hazard of CO. One at the helm, one below, and one at the "transom boarding location." This takes effect May 1. Legislative overreaction to a stupid accident where someone ran a portable generator on the deck of a moboat and ran an extension cord down below to a portable heater. There have been similar accidents in RVs around here.

I haven't decided what to do about the compliance aspect of this. I may just pay the extra for the "marine" units in case I run into the DNR or the water patrol. Though I'm told they usually leave sailboats alone.

[roverhi]

California has one of those stupid placard laws for CO. Total waste of money to purchase the placard but more importantly an income source in fines for those caught without the placard.

[jmschmidt]

Remember when flares and other pyrotechnic signal devices were cheap? I do. 12ga were about 50 cents each. Railroad type flares were about ten bucks a case. As soon as the made it mandatory the prices skyrocketed.

[sailingharry]

I enjoy the comments about "sheep" and "docile" and "compliant" and how there should be "outrage." Some will even go to court to ... .um... something. Very humorous. Laws are laws. You can comply, or you can risk the fine. You can pay the fine, or you can risk the jail. I for one am not going to carry a handgun into New York City and count on the cop believing me when I mention the Constitution! The best way to enjoy the cruising life, I suspect, is to not get caught up in debating the suitability of legislation.

That said, I'm already in a civil and productive conversation with my local state Senator, who I've had similar discussions with on other boating legislation. He says he values my input, and I think he actually does. I'm not in it to win at all costs (and therefore probably lose) -- I'd like to have as much influence as possible in slightly adjusting the inevitable outcome.

I'm still looking for any evidence of another vendor besides Fireboy making units clearly showing compliance with the Marine portions of UL 2034. Safe-T-Alert is silent in their literature, which to me means non-compliant. They do include the word "Marine" on the faceplate, if that means anything.

[phorvati]

I was reading this thread as my xintex started EOL-ing me. BTW i design UL safety equipment like GFCI AFCI LCDI PRCD etc so i know a thing or two about UL standards and approvals. What everyone forgets here perhaps even UL, is that under normal circumstances internal combustion does not produce CO. Im no chemist by, below are the formulas(one balanced, one un-balanced). So under normal circumstances CO is not produced, instead CO2 is produced.
There has to be a fault of some sort to create conditions to produce CO. The fault is lack of oxygen. lack of O2.
Well duty cycle of residential combustion, for instance in the winter when gas or oil heat is overtaxed and running 100% for 6 months is heck of a lot more than engine running on the boat. And it seems to me that a typical recreational boat is guaranteed to have more O2 than a house or mechanical room of a typical household in the winter where no-one wants to air out because its cold.
And price difference between xintex and typical residential one is 100$. And it appears that residential ones are more sensitive and "marine' one allow for faulty combustion issues.
So I am aware that ultimate consequence could be loss of life, but when you add up all the facts...like residential ones are more sensitive etc, I just don't think extra 100$ is justified.