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Old 15-05-2013, 07:10   #136
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
In defence of those who have doubts / concern (horror?!) about the venture and CelticDogs ability / wisdom / mental state , a regular feature of CF are folk who arrive on the forum armed with little more than a sailing dream and half an idea (and sometimes not even that much!), mostly those involve "normal" dreams but occassionally they involve the unusual - which this venture surely is.

What I am saying is that expectations are set kinda low , and whilst of course no need to spit out entire life story as a hello, nonetheless helps to at least throw out some broad context.

But generally speaking folks get a mix of some encouragement for the dream, but along with some helpful advice and useful forewarnings for the reality (not all of them mind , but typically at least meant well ) - sometimes all that is taken well, sometimes not.....and sometimes the members get into a debate amongst themselves ..........and usually these folks head back into the internet ether never to be heard of again . However some do stick around, and sometimes even buy a boat .

Our most famous Alumni is Ronnie Simpson, turned up with no sailing experiance with a dream to sail from LA(?) to Hawaii - got half way and was rescued by a slow boat (freighter) going to China . A thread or 2 around on his adventures, IIRC he then cycled to Europe and has since become an accomplished sailor with quite a few serious offshore passages (and adventures) under his belt - but collectively CF learned that "go for it" only gets folks so far, in Ronnie's case halfway .

In regard to the Wayfarer adventure, gotta expect plenty of interest in the idea, the boat, equipment and the skipper (the looney?!) - as probably the second favourite ocupation of folks on boats is shootin' the sh#t about all things boaty and running through "what if's" and dreaming (especially those in the Internet Navy - like me!). The first favourite occupation is of course gossipping........

I agree David. i agree. you are right. No ones being malicious or meaning to be! As you say its just gossip and interest.
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Old 16-05-2013, 01:12   #137
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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I am not aware of that, I didn't mean to anyway, so I'm sorry.
It was pure coincidence that my first post appeared after yours dude, but i was enjoying the fun...
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Old 16-05-2013, 21:31   #138
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Let's keep the posts about the topic,at least vaguely, and not about personal attacks on other members. Remember the be Nice rule.

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Old 16-05-2013, 22:52   #139
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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Originally Posted by celtic sea dog View Post
I am planning on sail cruising in a 16ft open dinghy but am not sure what is best way to achieve sound navigation. Should I be thinking along the lines of hand held battery powered devices, or maybe having to install a battery bank and power generation, such as solar, wind and water turbine?
I have seen that lowrance do a model of chartplotter for small boats, but how are these devices able to withstand capsizing in heavy seas? How are they protected from water pressure?
One or two pairs of eyeballs. Everything else is auxiliary.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:57   #140
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

To answer the narrow question posed by the OP: you have gotten good advice -- you don't need a chart plotter in a dinghy (and how would you power it?). All you need is a simple handheld (or better wristwatch-type) non-mapping GPS with lowest possible power consumption, and a good supply of lithium batteries. And paper charts in a good waterproof pouch. Needless to say, going far offshore in any vessel, you will want to have a PLB or EPIRB with you. You will want flares in a waterproof container, and a handheld VHF, preferably with DSC, a battery tray, and a supply of lithium batteries.

I know you were not asking for advice about your plans in general, but it would be irresponsible for us not to comment on them, although it may not be what you want to hear.

Sailing to Iceland from the UK is a singularly unsuitable trip for a dinghy sailor. The reasons are very simple:

1. The temperature of the water around Iceland rarely exceeds 10 degrees C. I think a number of people giving advice above did not quite take that into account.
2. You cannot be sure at all of staying out of the water in a dinghy in rough weather at sea.
3. The average person is unconscious in one hour in water of 10 degrees C.
4. In many cases, it would take rescue services many hours or days to find you, in the sub-Arctic North Atlantic.
5. That sea area has frequent violent gales (and incidentally, when it's not storming, often has lengthy, dead calms, which can also be dangerous in a motorless dinghy with limited food and water carrying capacity). The sea state produced in such storms will overwhelm a small boat without a keel.
6. The distance is far too great for you to be certain about your weather window, sailing at the speed of a small dinghy.

All this adds up to this trip amounting to a reckless risk of your life, and that of anyone trying to rescue you. If you don't care about life, and the choice is between this and suicide; if you don't have any family members or friends or loved ones whose lives would be damaged by your throwing away your own life in a gratuitous fashion; if you don't care about the lives of people you might put in the position of trying to save you -- then by all means, go ahead.

Otherwise, I strongly suggest that you should either choose a vessel more suitable to this cruise, or choose a sailing area more suitable to your vessel. A trade-winds trans-Atlantic would be a far more reasonable thing to do in a dinghy, than a trip to the sub-Arctic North Atlantic. With warm water and predictable weather, a long voyage in a dinghy starts to become less stupid.

I have planned a trip along the same route myself, have good friends who have done it, and am quite familiar with the charms of these places. If your main goal is to visit these magical places by sail, rather than doing some luridly reckless thing which will be fun to tell about in bars, in case you survive, then there are plenty of suitable vessels available for little or no money. If you look hard enough, you can find a battered old Contessa or some other really good sea boat like that, practically for free, plus the time and labor to fix it up a little. There are thousands of such boats available in the UK; someone would probably donate one for a cool trip like that.

It will still be a big adventure and big challenge, in a small but sturdy keel-boat. You run a significant risk of being rolled and dismasted if the weather does what it often does in those parts. It will not be without danger. But the crucial difference is that such a boat will most likely keep your body out of the cold water, come what may. A dinghy won't, beyond a certain sea state. I spent years and years sailing (and capsizing) dinghies, and know what I'm talking about.

Sorry for preaching, but it would have been irresponsible for me not to have made these comments.
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Old 17-05-2013, 01:21   #141
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
To answer the narrow question posed by the OP: you have gotten good advice -- you don't need a chart plotter in a dinghy (and how would you power it?). All you need is a simple handheld (or better wristwatch-type) non-mapping GPS with lowest possible power consumption, and a good supply of lithium batteries. And paper charts in a good waterproof pouch. Needless to say, going far offshore in any vessel, you will want to have a PLB or EPIRB with you. You will want flares in a waterproof container, and a handheld VHF, preferably with DSC, a battery tray, and a supply of lithium batteries.

I know you were not asking for advice about your plans in general, but it would be irresponsible for us not to comment on them, although it may not be what you want to hear.

Sailing to Iceland from the UK is a singularly unsuitable trip for a dinghy sailor. The reasons are very simple:

1. The temperature of the water around Iceland rarely exceeds 10 degrees C. I think a number of people giving advice above did not quite take that into account.
2. You cannot be sure at all of staying out of the water in a dinghy in rough weather at sea.
3. The average person is unconscious in one hour in water of 10 degrees C.
4. In many cases, it would take rescue services many hours or days to find you, in the sub-Arctic North Atlantic.
5. That sea area has frequent violent gales (and incidentally, when it's not storming, often has lengthy, dead calms, which can also be dangerous in a motorless dinghy with limited food and water carrying capacity). The sea state produced in such storms will overwhelm a small boat without a keel.
6. The distance is far too great for you to be certain about your weather window, sailing at the speed of a small dinghy.

All this adds up to this trip amounting to a reckless risk of your life, and that of anyone trying to rescue you. If you don't care about life, and the choice is between this and suicide; if you don't have any family members or friends or loved ones whose lives would be damaged by your throwing away your own life in a gratuitous fashion; if you don't care about the lives of people you might put in the position of trying to save you -- then by all means, go ahead.

Otherwise, I strongly suggest that you should either choose a vessel more suitable to this cruise, or choose a sailing area more suitable to your vessel. A trade-winds trans-Atlantic would be a far more reasonable thing to do in a dinghy, than a trip to the sub-Arctic North Atlantic. With warm water and predictable weather, a long voyage in a dinghy starts to become less stupid.

I have planned a trip along the same route myself, have good friends who have done it, and am quite familiar with the charms of these places. If your main goal is to visit these magical places by sail, rather than doing some luridly reckless thing which will be fun to tell about in bars, in case you survive, then there are plenty of suitable vessels available for little or no money. If you look hard enough, you can find a battered old Contessa or some other really good sea boat like that, practically for free, plus the time and labor to fix it up a little. There are thousands of such boats available in the UK; someone would probably donate one for a cool trip like that.

It will still be a big adventure and big challenge, in a small but sturdy keel-boat. You run a significant risk of being rolled and dismasted if the weather does what it often does in those parts. It will not be without danger. But the crucial difference is that such a boat will most likely keep your body out of the cold water, come what may. A dinghy won't, beyond a certain sea state. I spent years and years sailing (and capsizing) dinghies, and know what I'm talking about.

Sorry for preaching, but it would have been irresponsible for me not to have made these comments.
Finally some sensible advice. The other thing to bear in mind is that adventurers tell tales of their past deeds. Talking about what you intend to do can often be likened to blowing hot air.
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Old 17-05-2013, 01:30   #142
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Have a look here also at John Welsford designs. he is a firm believer in dinghy cruising and sails them around New Zealand. Google him and follow some links. In fact here is a good one that has all of them on there somewhere, including lots of videos to look at.

Arwen's meanderings

Some good stuff on there for you Mr Dog.

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Old 17-05-2013, 01:36   #143
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

yeah, why not go putting around denmark, i've heard theres some beautiful islands over there, and its still a pretty seriously challenging trip in an open boat...
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Old 17-05-2013, 02:16   #144
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

So far I haven't seen any log mentioned. Determining the speed of the boat and distance covered surely will be essential? How will you do that? Are there any mechanical logs still available? Seems to me almost everything out there needs power for a display.

Having done quite a lot of dinghy sailing I have to say you're off the sanity scale, but I wish you all the best! Certainly an interesting plan and the thread was fun to read.


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Old 17-05-2013, 02:24   #145
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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Originally Posted by frant View Post
Finally some sensible advice. The other thing to bear in mind is that adventurers tell tales of their past deeds. Talking about what you intend to do can often be likened to blowing hot air.
To be fair to OP. he was originally only after some gizmo advice and not after the usual validation of dreams / plans.

In any event he does seem well aware of the very grave perils of this venture - and likely will discover more of them hands on as he moves forward with his preparation. Hell, a fair to middling chance he will not survive that learning curve! But my gut says he has the noodle to change plan before setting off.

Whilst of course this thread has wandered off the original topic, given that is being read by others (of all levels of knowledge) I think very useful and important to have the warnings / cautions / forebodings of doom! plastered high and wide.........my only quibble with Dockheads excellent post of caution is on:-

2. You cannot be sure at all of staying out of the water in a dinghy in rough weather at sea.

Personally I would say that is a certainty!

TBH, if someone (likely on the younger end of the spectrum) was looking for a cheap extended adventure involving a Wayfarer (or similar sized boat) could do a lot worse than heading up the Canals, even if large chunks would involve other means of propulsion. Pretty much camping afloat of course - but that part of the fun (for some!).
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Old 17-05-2013, 02:47   #146
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
So far I haven't seen any log mentioned. Determining the speed of the boat and distance covered surely will be essential? How will you do that? Are there any mechanical logs still available? Seems to me almost everything out there needs power for a display.

Having done quite a lot of dinghy sailing I have to say you're off the sanity scale, but I wish you all the best! Certainly an interesting plan and the thread was fun to read.


Onno
well a bottomline handheld gps will do all that and more - for $100 ish you can get 3000 years of human endeavour and put it in your pocket...as far as the OPs sanity - who knows? a group of very serious and experienced sailors recently re-enacted Blighs journey after he was put off the Bounty - but those guys really knew what they were doing - and they were doing it in the tropics...
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Old 17-05-2013, 03:51   #147
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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well a bottomline handheld gps will do all that and more - for $100 ish you can get 3000 years of human endeavour and put it in your pocket...
Indeed. I had for years a cheap Garmin Fortrex wristwatch-type GPS that would show lat-lon, SOG, COG, bearing to waypoint, distance to waypoint, ETA. It was fantastic -- the pinnacle of non-chart plotter navigation.

On a dinghy, that's really all the instrumentation you need. SOG is all you really need to know about speed, and a lead line will do for depth. A windex plus telltales for wind.
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Old 17-05-2013, 18:22   #148
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
To answer the narrow question posed by the OP: you have gotten good advice -- you don't need a chart plotter in a dinghy (and how would you power it?). All you need is a simple handheld (or better wristwatch-type) non-mapping GPS with lowest possible power consumption, and a good supply of lithium batteries. And paper charts in a good waterproof pouch.
I still think something like navionics on a simple smartphone in a waterproof casing would be a good investment. I can see problems approaching land in foul weather with strong tides when trying to plot a fix on a paper chart without letting go of the helm. The additional benefits like being able to access internet when in range and make phone calls are also useful. This new samsung Xcover looks interesting as a waterproof phone. A friend has one, and she likes it. But I would still have it in a waterproof case as well. Still keep the charts and GPS as good weather system and for Backup.
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Old 18-05-2013, 09:50   #149
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Did anyone mention a fishing line for sushi..? I simply would need the attached ocean going dinghy, a companion, the fishing line, a lodestone and a small barrel of wine I could tow.
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Old 18-05-2013, 10:16   #150
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Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

handheld gps, you may be able to find a small solar charger.
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