what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

[Paul Annapolis]

Hey sailors--I'm not a naysayer or a nattering nabob of negativism.I did not mean to throw cold water on this fellow sailor either. He'll get enough of that from a 16' dinghy. All I am saying is that sailing alone on the ocean on any boat is hard enough. Going on a 16' dinghy is all the more challenging and if it floats his boat, well, you get my drift. My concern is not at all with his choice to do this. It is simply that if you are going to do it with the most challenging way possible--as in a 16' dinghy, there seems to be something incongruous if not ironic or maybe contradictory about being concerned with having the most high-tech, portable electronic navigation devices. That was the source of my comments. How did these other tiny-boat navigators do it??? You have multiple challenges as to choosing instruments with room, weight, stability, moisture, power etc...so if you are going to be as simple, cramped, economical, low tech as to do this in a 16' dinghy--why does the question of fancy electronics even arise?That was my point. I'm really trying to understand the thinking here. On thousands of miles of open ocean, it's tough on a boat of any size to be sure, but if someone is going to be as bare-bones and economical to do this in a 16' dinghy--why not just have a compass and do dead reckoning? If he is unwilling to "compromise" by being on a larger and more comfortable boat, why worry about fancy navigating? I sailed a 33' sloop from North Carolina to Puerto Rico with nothing but compass, trailing a log (kept getting fouled in Sargasso Weed), an RDF and a plastic Davis sextant for noon shots. The rdf gave us time signals and could pick up Bermuda and Roosevelt Roads Naval Station. That was 1981. There was LORAN and SATNAV but we did not have it. Thanks for reading...

[charliehows]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

There are no catalogues where I am :thumbs: the only reason I could list this is because I'm buying most of it for a different reason but recognized the similarity. I always research before I spend any money.

So, how long have you been out cruising? Me, just over 10 years full time now, before that about 30 years when time allowed

hmmm, shake it around a bit man, it might be bigger than mine...

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by charliehows

hmmm, shake it around a bit man, it might be bigger than mine...

Just answering your somewhat rude question and giving you a bit back. You shouldn't throw out what you can't take yourself when it gets back to you.

I'm trying to help this guy selecting good gear that doesn't cost him too much and you are giving me a hard time for that?! Because I try to help somebody who asked for that help?! What is wrong with you? Why don't you start your own thread about how bad the world has become with all the modern gadgets and I may come and disrupt that too just for the heck of it.

[charliehows]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Just answering your somewhat rude question and giving you a bit back. You shouldn't throw out what you can't take yourself when it gets back to you.

I'm trying to help this guy selecting good gear that doesn't cost him too much and you are giving me a hard time for that?! Because I try to help somebody who asked for that help?! What is wrong with you? Why don't you start your own thread about how bad the world has become with all the modern gadgets and I may come and disrupt that too just for the heck of it.

you started it big guy

[Teknav]

There is no need for personal attacks. No matter what you write, some folks will not agree with you. For those who disagree with my opinions, I just ignore them. Instead of proving/disproving a point...I'd rather be flying...errr...cruising! Mauritz

[Snowpetrel]

Cool. Sounds like great fun cruising on a 16 footer.

On navigation I am sure its been mentioned but all I would do is buy 2 cheap smartphones and install navionics on them both. Put them in good waterproof cases and you are sorted especially if you add a compass and maybe a handheld gps and some laminated chartlets just in case it all goes pear shaped. Some way of charging the one you are not using would be needed for longer trips.

I use this often on deliveries as my cockpit nav system. One stays below on charge while the other is in my pocket or straped to my forearm in it's case.

This works so well I don't think i'll bother with a dedicated chartplotter for my new boat. I use the same system for my sea kayak.

Edit: on further reading of the posts, sounds like a pretty extreme sort of trip, so definitely add a pre programmed handheld GPS as a backup to the phones. I would go for one of those waterproof satphones as well and a waterproof VHF with GPS, and a couple of fully breathable drysuits (Incase one gets damaged, the neck seals are vulnerable). Solar is going to be the most reliable for charging. Also it's worth following Andrew Mcauley's tragic story to show you how it could go wrong. A sobering and heartbreaking video that all who go to sea in small boats should watch is here.(ignore the first minute of crap, it starts properly a few minute down the track)

here

.

[celtic sea dog]

Originally Posted by Snore

Yikes, I went from being thanked to being flamed!! Don't "have a problem" with anything. gave an honest opinion based on some fairly extensive personal experience to someone who is short on experience and is taking an open boat outside its design envelope, to an environment where there is no backup.

Books and classes are nice, but it takes a lot of sea time to develop instinctive reactions. Often it is only that instinctive reaction that saves a boat outside its design envelope.

Best of luck in your endeavor

Oh. sorry. i don't really mean any offence. its just that some folk think, like i have no brain whatsoever or haven't thought things through, or haven't got any experience with boats etc, just because iv'e rocked up on a forum in the last week.
i didnt realise i would need to submit an entire resume' or justify my existence. Just wanted to know some possibilities regarding my original question, about what is available, other than the obvious of course!
then all of a sudden i'm having to answer enquiries about cold weather, food, clothing and its not really the subject of the thread.
My rant may have had something to do with the choice of the boat, regarding its seaworthiness being brought into question. Further more, i understand your sentiments regarding, books and courses/classes, but it just so happens that i'm a natural! I have in fact had a lot of experience with the wayfarer, as i have had with many other classes of dinghy. I have sailed a wayfarer with no rudder, can safely recover a man overboard a gazillion times, can upright a turtled/inverted boat with consumate ease, can sail to compass bearing, can feel wind, i can see, i can sheet in, i can sheet out, i can reef etc etc etc.
you probably are not being mean deliberately, but there are so many out there who have been doing it for ever, who just want to let everyone else know that they have been doing it forever and want to wax lyrical about their own extensive knowledge or experience.
all in all, i do not want to offend anyone, but at the same time, i don,t want to be offended. But hey its a free world more or less and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
As for me i just enjoy sailing, i enjoy adventure and i enjoy danger and risk. As David said, i'm probably "on the mental end of mental", but i'm fine with that, but if there are people who have a problem about it, then its their problem not mine!
Lol David, thats a great quote "on the mental end of mental", i might even get a t-shirt made with that emblazoned on it, then any folk that see me coming can give me a wide birth and leave me well and truly to starboard!

[celtic sea dog]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Just answering your somewhat rude question and giving you a bit back. You shouldn't throw out what you can't take yourself when it gets back to you.

I'm trying to help this guy selecting good gear that doesn't cost him too much and you are giving me a hard time for that?! Because I try to help somebody who asked for that help?! What is wrong with you? Why don't you start your own thread about how bad the world has become with all the modern gadgets and I may come and disrupt that too just for the heck of it.

I appreciate positive feedback and suggestions. I don't want people to war over old techniques compared to "techno crap", but in my case i will take my own counsel in the end and plump for what works best for me!
I will probably go for a bit of both as my budget is tight. Hense my desire to undertake cruising in a 16' dinghy. its not the primary reason, but finance is a factor. I can only do what i can afford to do at the end of the day. Im not lucky enough to have my own yacht nor will i be able to afford one any year soon. Even a 30' yacht takes some money to keep afloat and properly maintained. there's nothing quite like shelling out on chandlery!
The thing that really upsets me is the thousands of yachts that lie moored up in marinas the world over, that are rarely used, if at all! I suspect that these are just convenient ways of dodging tax! I think folk who fall into this category, should have their boats seized and auctioned off cheaply to adventurous souls like myself, who do want to push boundaries and explore.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by celtic sea dog

Everything and every angle is on the table and being considered. I can see a lot of sense in relying on proven techniques. Dye himself managed to take sights by being gymnastic around the mast, though he did have a crew!

Have you looked at sven lundins bris sextant. Perfect for a small boat backup. Very Light and simple.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by charliehows

you started it big guy

I am not aware of that, I didn't mean to anyway, so I'm sorry.

[celtic sea dog]

Originally Posted by Teknav

One cannot reason with a person who lacks common sense. Most of us like to plan ahead our adventures so that we may enjoy them; hence, the bell shaped curve used in statistics. It's the 2%-4% of the population that cause the most stress on everyone else. The way I look at it...if someone rides a motorcycle without a helmet to protect his/her head...sorry to say, that head is really not worth much! Mauritz

What am i doing if not planning ahead already? I am going to great lengths to prepare. i'm not setting sail next week!
Look i might seem a little mad to you, and you are entitled to think what you like regarding my ability or chances of survival.
As for me, when i undertake this mission, i will be in the best possible shape, mentally, physically and be fully prepared for what lies ahead, i will feel good, i will feel confident in myself and my ability to make the right decisions. I started thinking about this 2 years ago. I have been researching and will continue to research as long as i deem neccessary. I will prepare myself physically as i am doing currently, with a rigorous training regime. It is tough and solitary, like preparing for a boxing match. I am already in good physical shape. i already live a hard frugal existence and am very used to doing without luxury! I also have the determination that will carry me through.
My Sailing mentor says that there are 3 things that are of upmost importance in sailing. they are: Preparation, preparation and preparation!
I buy into that wholeheartedly and am not stupid or ignorant, like you might think i am.
When i am ready, i will know i am ready, even if it is in 16'ft boat, and i WILL prove you wrong. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than proving people wrong

"it is not the critic who counts, nor the one who points out how, the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and he who if he fails, at least whilst daring greatly, so that his place will never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

'The man in the arena.'

[boatman61]

Celtic... you've got to remember something about CF... a large proportion of us are slightly over 50.. maybe even 60...
Deliberate hardship for the sake of it has faded into the distant past... todays hardship is a broken ice machine
Like most personal challenges it appears mental to all but you... but that's normal...
Way more radical than anything I've done.. apart from being to far N.. brrrrrrrr.
I sail basic... 1 passage chart, 1 for destination and one for bolt holes... compass, divider and a basic positional GPS + back-up...
Jedi's suggestion of the H/H GPS/VHF is a good one, waterproof if possible.. spare batteries in a dry bag.
3 checks a 24hr day on passage... as and when near land..
That's all you need...
to many toys cause needless worry, reduce vital stowage, get in the way...
Save your money for the best drysuits/GPS/EPIRB...
survivals the name of the game.. else your just another 'stooped dickhead'....
navigations a doddle..

[celtic sea dog]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Cool. Sounds like great fun cruising on a 16 footer.

On navigation I am sure its been mentioned but all I would do is buy 2 cheap smartphones and install navionics on them both. Put them in good waterproof cases and you are sorted especially if you add a compass and maybe a handheld gps and some laminated chartlets just in case it all goes pear shaped. Some way of charging the one you are not using would be needed for longer trips.

I use this often on deliveries as my cockpit nav system. One stays below on charge while the other is in my pocket or straped to my forearm in it's case.

This works so well I don't think i'll bother with a dedicated chartplotter for my new boat. I use the same system for my sea kayak.

Edit: on further reading of the posts, sounds like a pretty extreme sort of trip, so definitely add a pre programmed handheld GPS as a backup to the phones. I would go for one of those waterproof satphones as well and a waterproof VHF with GPS, and a couple of fully breathable drysuits (Incase one gets damaged, the neck seals are vulnerable). Solar is going to be the most reliable for charging. Also it's worth following Andrew Mcauley's tragic story to show you how it could go wrong. A sobering and heartbreaking video that all who go to sea in small boats should watch is here.(ignore the first minute of crap, it starts properly a few minute down the track)

.

Thanks mate, I have watched the video and am aware of the dangers listed and covered within. It is as you say, a heartbreaking film. I think it is more profound because so much is captured on film. It is sobering to anyone who watches it. A good kayaker and keen adventurer!
What i am alarmed at here though (after doing some kayaking myself over the years) is how was he was intending to bail out, should his craft take in water? I remember needing at least one other open kayak to help drain the sinking one once and i remember being in the water for 20 minutes and feeling very cold.
My provision for myself here in respect of my adventure/aim is to have good drysuit/s and a lifereaft with a grab bag! i cant really do any more than that, save chatering a support ship to ghost along 1 mile off my beam!

[celtic sea dog]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Celtic... you've got to remember something about CF... a large proportion of us are slightly over 50.. maybe even 60...
Deliberate hardship for the sake of it has faded into the distant past... todays hardship is a broken ice machine
Like most personal challenges it appears mental to all but you... but that's normal...
Way more radical than anything I've done.. apart from being to far N.. brrrrrrrr.
I sail basic... 1 passage chart, 1 for destination and one for bolt holes... compass, divider and a basic positional GPS + back-up...
Jedi's suggestion of the H/H GPS/VHF is a good one, waterproof if possible.. spare batteries in a dry bag.
3 checks a 24hr day on passage... as and when near land..
That's all you need...
to many toys cause needless worry, reduce vital stowage, get in the way...
Save your money for the best drysuits/GPS/EPIRB...
survivals the name of the game.. else your just another 'stooped dickhead'....
navigations a doddle..

thanks matey, i know most are good natured and with good intentions. lol

[David_Old_Jersey]

In defence of those who have doubts / concern (horror?!) about the venture and CelticDogs ability / wisdom / mental state , a regular feature of CF are folk who arrive on the forum armed with little more than a sailing dream and half an idea (and sometimes not even that much!), mostly those involve "normal" dreams but occassionally they involve the unusual - which this venture surely is.

What I am saying is that expectations are set kinda low , and whilst of course no need to spit out entire life story as a hello, nonetheless helps to at least throw out some broad context.

But generally speaking folks get a mix of some encouragement for the dream, but along with some helpful advice and useful forewarnings for the reality (not all of them mind , but typically at least meant well ) - sometimes all that is taken well, sometimes not.....and sometimes the members get into a debate amongst themselves ..........and usually these folks head back into the internet ether never to be heard of again . However some do stick around, and sometimes even buy a boat .

Our most famous Alumni is Ronnie Simpson, turned up with no sailing experiance with a dream to sail from LA(?) to Hawaii - got half way and was rescued by a slow boat (freighter) going to China . A thread or 2 around on his adventures, IIRC he then cycled to Europe and has since become an accomplished sailor with quite a few serious offshore passages (and adventures) under his belt - but collectively CF learned that "go for it" only gets folks so far, in Ronnie's case halfway .

In regard to the Wayfarer adventure, gotta expect plenty of interest in the idea, the boat, equipment and the skipper (the looney?!) - as probably the second favourite ocupation of folks on boats is shootin' the sh#t about all things boaty and running through "what if's" and dreaming (especially those in the Internet Navy - like me!). The first favourite occupation is of course gossipping........