South Pacific Charts - Are you selling/not needing/getting rid of yours?

[Tortz]

Hey All!


We are getting ready to embark on our South Pacific journey for the cruising season 2015.
I am wondering if anyone who has 'gone before us' is either in the process of selling/disposing of/will never use again your paper Charts for the South Pacific route from Panama to New Zealand and every where in between?

The younger they are the better (but not critical), or if you know of anywhere someone can purchase 2nd hand Charts (as a back up to electronics) here in the USA/On-line then please let me know so I can hunt them down.
Relatively good condition is ideal.


We are currently in the Fort Lauderdale area.


Thank you




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[Tortz]

Hey Hoghunter,

We are after Paper Charts for the South Pacific.



Sent from my LG-V500 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Harding]

You must have updated official papercard and publications onboard.

IMO SOLAS V Regulation 2

Nauticalchartornauticalpublication is a special-purposemapor book, or a speciallycompiled database from whichsuch a mapor book is derived, that is issuedofficially by oron the authority of a Government, authorizedHydrographic Office orother relevant government institution and is designed to meet the requirements of marine navigation.

The nauticalcharts and nauticalpublicationsreferred to in regulation V/2 arecommonlyreferred to as “official charts and publications”

For all kind of electrical maps exept ECDISS systems you must follow this:

"Warning: No official authority has approved the information in this product and all authorities disclaims all responsibility and liability regarding product accuracy and timeliness.
No official authorities can guarantee that the product meets national and international law for its use as the primary means of navigation.
The product should only be used as an aid in the planning and implementation of practical navigation at sea. "

It is allways reccomended only to use the newest and updated maps.
No Court or insurance Company accept non officiel maps and publications.

For using ECDISS:
The master must guarantee that the ship has the necessary date paper charts for the intended voyage unless the following requirements can be met:
• Approved ECDISS as the primary navigation system, AND
• The flag State permitting use of ECDISS as primary navigation, AND
• Viewing the complete updated ENC short of the planned journey, AND
• A type-approved ECDISS system with an independent power supply for backup of the navigation event. AND
• The flag State permitting use of ECDISS with an independent power supply as a backup, AND
• There must be installed approved and updated ENC maps on both primary and backup system, AND
Is there adequate backup installation, use the updated official charts as backup.
• The master shall also intended to ensure that he meets all other requirements, including proper documentation of ECDISS training of navigators on board, etc.

Is the above met, he should be able to sail without date paper charts.

This is not an advertisement but a case information:

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Seapilot has opened for the sale of their products to the US and the rest of North America.
The new version is called SeaPilot 3.7 MarineCharting App (US version).
The cards are in S-57 format. Weather Info from MeteoGroup, AIS, NMEA, marks / Routes, Import / Export.
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Harding

[Wannabe-007]

I feel like there is some context missing here...
either that, or im just not smart enough to understand.
The OP is looking for paper charts for the south pacific - whats all this ECDIS bizzo about...
Seapilot for north america?

Colour me confused.

[Harding]

It was a reply to:

"Do you already have digital charts or are you planning on doing everything the old fashioned way with paper charts?"

There are no alternative to official updated papercharts.
It´s not wise to buy old outdated charts.

Remember: There is no equipment requirements that describe what electronic can be used by recreational sailors as an alternative to SOLAS V Regulation 2. until new orders and instructions to make a new electronic chart service for yachting legally.
The existing Electronic charts ate not valid for primary navigation, they are only a help function for planning and underway.

Only ECDISS systems with approved charts and updates can be used as primari navigation charts.

Harding

[Jim Cate]

Harding, I don't understand where you are coming from. Recreational sailors in most areas are not even required to have any charts whatsoever. Some countries do mandate their carriage, but many don't.

As one who has crossed several oceans with Xerox copies of outdated charts, I'd have to say that there are indeed alternatives to "official updated paper charts". They may not meet your personal criteria, but they will likely get you where you want to go. So far, in our 28 years of full time cruising, no one has ever asked about our charts, official or otherwise..

Many cruisers these days navigate with electronic charts of various provenances. We tend to use CM93 in the areas we currently cruise, but doubtless would use other sources in other places. No ECDISS, just a laptop and OPCN. With some often very old paper to use if the electronics fail... and a sextant and the skill to use it in case of GPS failure.

Works for us, and a hell of a lot of others as well.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Tortz,

You might try the SSCA website, they do have a classified, and returning circumnavigators sometimes unload their paper charts.

The land masses are pretty stable, mostly. Corals grow slowly, volcanism can cause rapid uplifts and subsidence, so use with caution the old charts, and some of them are a long way off, especially in Tonga and Fiji, so you have to make the corrections, but it is doable.

There are places where our CMaps charts are off, too. An old friend of ours said, many years ago, "charts are for dreaming; eyeballs are for navigation." He didn't mean it literally, of course, but especially in coral areas, your eyes, with polarized sunglasses between them and the sun, are what will keep you off the coral heads. Height of eye helps, and we often did have Jim at the spreaders and me at the helm with our Toys R Us walkie talkies for communication between lookout and helm.

Ann

[Wannabe-007]

Thanks guys.
There's outdated, and there's outdated... someone who has just finished a coconut milk run and packing it in may have no use for them any more. I've often wondered myself where the market is for 2nd hand charts.

They are really expensive!

Toys R Us huh? Marriage savers without the price tag

[Tortz]

Thanks all for your feedback!

Yes i am looking for paper charts. We have a few means of electronic charting but i'm looking for a full complement of paper charts for the south pacific

Ann T. Cate I will be sure to check out the SSCA site!

Thx

Sent from my LG-V500 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Nadezhda]

The best place to find used charts of the South Pacific between Panama and New Zealand is .....




New Zealand!

[MarkJ]

A full compliment of South Pacific charts could be $5,000 or more. And still be pretty useless. As Ann says, a lot of the islands and reefs are wofeully wrong.

The Va'vu group in Tonga, where you will likely go, is up to, but not consistantly, 3/4 of a mile wrong.

The only thing thats accurate is Google Earth and, I guess, newly surveyed electronic charts.

[impi]

Originally Posted by Tortz

Thanks all for your feedback!

Yes i am looking for paper charts. We have a few means of electronic charting but i'm looking for a full complement of paper charts for the south pacific

Ann T. Cate I will be sure to check out the SSCA site!

Thx

Sent from my LG-V500 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Tortz .. we have just crossed and are in Fiji chilling. If you know someone here sure you could copy them .. but its a long way off the USA ... they are many ... so if you cant get them ... we could be your backup.
We never used ours but did plot noon positions on long crossings. The electronic charts CM93 were way off on Open CPN for Tonga and Fiji ... we have tracks sailing right over islands ... in 4x4 mode

[Harding]

Jim,
Here a update to your knowledge:
Inmostwaters, any sail witha recreational craftunder 15meters, former 20GT, without needingpermissionfrom any authorityand without having topayany kind ofcertificate, This freedom tosailleads manyto believethat there are norules and regulationsforrecreationalboating. BUTtheres.a lot.</SPAN>
To amarinermadetheclaimthat hemust notbea drytheoristor a "Dog Heaven" who live on the'Our Lord's additional allocation.</SPAN>
Since the formation ofthe IMO(International MaritimeOrganization)hasSOLASand navigationsafetyheard duringIMO'sresponsibility.InSOLASis requiredandnauticalcharts and nauticalpublications onboard ships.Listed as"Safety ofNavigation".</SPAN>
The navigator ofa recreational craftare required tofamiliarize themselves withthe orders, rulesand sailingregulations applicableto shippinginthewaters, the vessel is trading, and at such locationsasthe vessel land. In addition, the provisions Watchkeepingalsoapply torecreationalboaters.</SPAN>
There is noequipmentrequirement for chartson boats, but the watchkeepingnoticedescribesherea procedurewhichinclude and based onthe use ofcharts.
This noticealso apply torecreational craft.</SPAN></SPAN>
IMOinIMOSOLASV/2definedthe term"a chart":</SPAN>
• “2.2 Nautical chart or nautical publication is a special-purpose map or book, or a specially compiled database from which such a map or book is derived, that is issued officially by or on the authority of a Government, authorized Hydrographic Office or other relevant government institution and is designed to meet the requirements of marine navigation.”
Therefore homemade or commercial spaghetti chart is not a part of navigation onboard.
Only Vesselsexclusivelyfor racing, rowing, rowingtraining, canoes, kayaks, gondolas, pedalos,windsurfers,surfboards,powered surfboards, historical craftdesigned before 1950,experimental craft, commercialinland waterway vessels, submersibles, air cushion vehicles, hydrofoilsandsteam-poweredvessels are free from having official updated charts onboard.
Harding

[HappyMdRSailor]

Holy WTF Batman....

[Wannabe-007]

Clearly not all posts or posters are created equal...

I'd love to get a snapshot survey of all the cruisers in the South Pacific and find out exactly what they have on board in terms of paper charts... that would be a telling story.

Google Earth is a good idea. I've been meaning to sort out the Google Earth / OpenCPN combo thing for years now and haven't made the time to do it.
Im getting a new laptop shortly and intend to finally get this working.

As for paper charts... Small scale charts are pretty important so you can navigate after a lightening strike or other massive electrical failure. I like using paper charts in the open ocean... in fact I enjoy using paper charts full stop. In an ideal world, we'd all have the small scale paper charts for every possible eventuality. However, the world is going digital fast, and when you can have 3 tablets on standby, all with different source charts loaded...

It does my head in, how expensive charts are, but I have, thus far avoided the temptation to copy anything or even acquire the CM93.

<newsbreak>
It looks like you can download a lot of the South Pacific charts from LINZ and therefore print them yourself. The .tiff files seem to be an OK resolution (for printing). I imagine you could find a print shop that would print these out on suitable size/quality paper for $5 or so?
The copyright is under creative commons - ie. you can legitimately copy these.
They do come with a warning...
"Chart images downloaded from this site: are not to be used for navigation; are not corrected for Notices to Mariners."
...but you can download all of the Notices to Mariners from the same site.
It would be a bit of work to compile all these / deal with the notices etc, but it would save you a lot of money.

I've only just discovered this, and it looks like you can get a lot of the South Pacific charts - 14607 (French Polynesia) for example, is not available for download.

Link here: http://www.linz.govt.nz/sea/charts/p...hart-catalogue

I would love to hear form someone who has actually done this.