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Old 26-08-2012, 14:22   #646
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

A downside to plotters....when the excise swabs RRRRR chasin' ye and ye've burrrrried the treasure, ye canna rrrrip yer plotterrr in harrrf if ye think yerrrr shipmate might cross ye...RRRRRR!
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Old 26-08-2012, 18:31   #647
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
If had plenty of money to throw away, could use those the water proof type, but they are expensive.
And a dammed pain to permanently correct....
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Old 27-08-2012, 04:08   #648
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I haven't struggled through the entire thread, so what I'm about to raise may have been mentioned. In case it hasn't:

One good thing about paper charts is that the technology is unchanging.

(It doesn't particularly need to change; it works OK. See below for one improvement #)

Electronic charts are likely to keep improving, as will the devices they run on.

When I'm doing something as important as navigating, I like to learn the skills good and solid, for keeps ... and it helps if the tools I use are familiar, durable and transparent to the user.

As an early adopter of numerical and digital devices for maths, engineering, 3D design, comms, music, etc etc, I've become, over the last decade, somewhat averse to spending still more of my life, carrying on learning stuff (particularly user interfaces) which won't be any further use --or which I will have to relearn -- the year after next
I'm similarly disenchanted with buying gadgets which similarly have no durable value).
I don't care how cheap it is to have umpteen different electronic devices on board. Eventually, carried to the logical conclusion, it'll be like being infested with electronic cockroaches, beyond a certain point of utility.

I think the human brain might use different circuits for novel information, and in my experience if you overuse those, you may eventually lose some capacity in that area (also if you underuse them, probably !
.... it's tough being a sentient being...)

BOTTOM LINE: I don't care if things keep improving, once they're at the point where they're good enough for what I need.

Sometimes it's nice to step off the 'upgrade treadmill'

#
Waterproof charts - now that's an improvement. Expensive, though, if proprietary. Unpigmented urethane varnish, applied from a spraygun, works at a pinch, for charts you may use a lot in tough weather).

[ I like to have disposable photocopies of tricky sections, like tidal overfalls, that I can have in the cockpit for eyeball pilotage. Sometimes I fold them and hold them up horizontally and sight over them like a plane table / pelorus. Beats using a sextant for horizontal angles, in conditions where it's too rough to benefit from the accuracy, or when you don't need it that accurate.

I also like to carry tracing paper in chart sizes. Surprising how often a chart needed for the next port turns up not to be on board; I always double-check at least a day before departure, and go rowing if need be.]
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Old 27-08-2012, 05:01   #649
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Good post, Andrew.

You're my kinda navigator: knowledgeable, skilled and experienced with both traditional and modern tools, and sensible in their choice and use.

Cudos, my friend.

Bill
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Old 30-08-2012, 19:40   #650
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I would love to go all electric? A spare handheld Gps as back up etc but i have a nagging doubt about some electric part failing yet have never lost the ability to use Gps etc so my fear is unreasonable but remains my fear never the less.
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Old 30-08-2012, 20:50   #651
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I am new to sailing and have c-maps and navionics (best $16 I ever spent) but I still like the paper charts for seeing more at a glance and as a backup. We don't use one format exclusively.
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Old 30-08-2012, 22:17   #652
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary



Congrats to the OP for such a controversial thread. Life was getting a little boring after the "Cruising on $500 "went to the wayside.

OH I use electronic charts and the Mark I eyeball.

Though I do have 5 charts I got off a liberty ship once.... I also have a sextant and sight reduction software, just in case.

Worst case I can eyeball a noon sight with as stick and protractor and head east or west till I can ask for directions .
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:03   #653
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Having trawled through these posts I am totally amazed that nobody has mentioned the number of times that gps accuracy has gone totaly AWOL.
Also the number of SOS help come and save me my gps has failed...you will be surprised! After being given a heading to sail, one guy even managed to hit an island while approaching a lit channel....why? Lack of seamanship! Two hours to sun up but continued to approach land. His excuse...."I was tired and wanted to get in"...yeh right!
Please remember electronic charts are just as inaccurate as paper charts.
IMHO anything with batteries is suspect.
Incidentally, yes I love electronic gismos but am always ready with manual back ups including astro if required...seamanship....!!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:24   #654
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

The account of the voyage of the Aegre, a 21' Shetland foureen, is mighty interesting. This part is where they were capsized and dismasted. They lost most of their nav gear too, but how they handled the problem is instructive. The bit below is where the navigation mentions start, but it's well worth reading about the whole voyage. Nice boat, too....

10 - the first few days after the mid Pacific Capsize of The Aegre

Quote:
By the fourth day after the capsize we were getting fairly organised. I had been carefully plotting our rate and direction of drift since the capsize on a big chart that had survived. Most had just disintegrated but up forward we'd had an Atlas of American Pilot Charts and somehow they had remained relatively undamaged. With the Americas on one side and Australia on the other the scale was rather small but infinitely better than no chart at all.
At the time of the capsize we'd been about 150 miles southwest of Tahiti. Now, guessing approximately how fast we were drifting and the direction and strength of the probable current, I calculated we might be about 270 miles north east of the Cook Islands. We started to keep a log inside the cover of the Nautical Almanac. This together with the other navigational books had survived immersion quite well and were now dry enough to write on.
We had also found our Bulova Accutron chronometer. After the capsize it was missing from its 'secure' position with our other navigation instruments, to be found later underwater in the bilges, still going. Our rating card showing the watch's error had disappeared but very luckily Julie could remember the error on the day we left Tahiti and knowing the watch's constant daily rate we were able to calculate GMT. This small piece of information together with our Nautical Almanac was to eventually lead us to land.
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:35   #655
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

With all the electronic wizz's saying paper charts are not needed ! How come when I offer to buy ALL and ANY of these worthless pieces of paper, nobody seems to want to sell them ?? Hummm, maybe somefolks just are full of bull ?? maybe they still realize that paper IS NEEDED ?? or they don't really have any and this stuff is there way of feeling better about this Hole in there planning ?? don't know but Im still buying !! and nobodys sellin !! LOL that sorta takes the game away from this Crap Thread !! Just sayin sell or quit sayin there not needed !!!
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:48   #656
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

How big is your chart collection now? Any tips on storing them to keep them in good condition, and findable?

I was just thinking, after re-reading Nick & Julie's adventure, of always having some decent charts of my current location securely glassed in on a sheltered bulkhead or deckhead. Laminated glass or lexan, something tough, and so the salt/wet/bugs can't get at them.
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Old 01-09-2012, 19:06   #657
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

i have some HUGE ziplok bags for em. and a chart rack kinda thing the last owner added to this poor boat.....works tho.....i have 50?? charts at present.
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Old 01-09-2012, 19:27   #658
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysam View Post
Having trawled through these posts I am totally amazed that nobody has mentioned the number of times that gps accuracy has gone totaly AWOL.
Also the number of SOS help come and save me my gps has failed...you will be surprised! After being given a heading to sail, one guy even managed to hit an island while approaching a lit channel....why? Lack of seamanship! Two hours to sun up but continued to approach land. His excuse...."I was tired and wanted to get in"...yeh right!
Please remember electronic charts are just as inaccurate as paper charts.
IMHO anything with batteries is suspect.
Incidentally, yes I love electronic gismos but am always ready with manual back ups including astro if required...seamanship....!!!!!!
The other side of this is how many times is there "weather" that precludes a star shot for multiple days?

I have a great article I wish was electronic. It talks about the crew almost mutinying and wanting to head for Africa (a target that is hard to miss) because the skipper was "lost" and couldn't get even a sun shot for 3 days.

An initial heading error made them mist their island by about 60+ miles.

Point being a temporary loss of GPS signal should not be an emergency.

+1 on all the bad seamanship stuff.
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Old 01-09-2012, 19:43   #659
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

yeah its a fun thread.Anyone remember david lewis? He spent half a life studying polynesian traditions of navigation - those guys didnt need paper charts. Cautionary tale: been fiddling about with open cpn, got it up and running and thinking "wow, this is pretty cool once i plug my gps in"...then the whole computer just locked up and conked, had to spend half the afternoon doing a recovery - too bad if i happened to be trying to thread my way through some reefs or something. Think i'll keep me paper charts...
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Old 01-09-2012, 19:55   #660
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I have well over 50 lbs of charts aboard I almost never take my charts above deck! I keep the ones im not useing rolled up in chart containers in a area in the chart table area ! on my new to us boat I have a Wheel house so my charts are again protected, the ones im useing will be there, and the others will be below in the chart table area. Ive never seen the reason to take a chart on deck! my memorie is better then that LOL even at my age !! And again Im still buying ANY and ALL Charts ya have !!
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